Plenary Session of Russia's First Future Technologies Forum & Presser

Very long article readers may want to read at substack instead of via their email.

The main reason why Soviet then Russian and Chinese have made such rapid advances in scientific and technological advancement is the combination of funding for most research to be done by the state in the form of public utilities at universities and state-owned enterprises while also encouraging the imaginations of the people to become scientists, engineers, and entrepreneurial inventors that combines the best attributes of communalism and capitalism. This development I’ve been following for 30+ years and far more intently over the past dozen as part of my overall study of the Russian and Chinese political-economies and their theoretical basis. A number of articles published at my VK deal with these topics and more will follow here at my substack.

This session is more of a roundtable discussion in which Putin is just one member, although he will give an opening speech to those assembled. As usual for these affairs, much will be learned about the present and future but also about the past all of which is highly informative and provides instruction no university can offer. The same can be said about the meetings Putin has with individual Ministers like the one from yesterday with Minister of Health Mikhail Murashko. President Putin is often described as a one-man show by Western media but in reality is the manager of a very good team that certainly contributes to his image. After the Plenary session, a short informal press conference was held that will be appended to the end of the session transcript. First, the preamble supplied by the Kremlin:

The Forum opens a series of annual meetings dedicated to innovative practices of the country's technological development. The event brought together scientists from leading universities and research centers of the world, experts and representatives of the business community.

The central event – the plenary session-is dedicated to discussing priority tasks in the development of computing and data transmission technologies, their potential for economic growth and improving the quality of people's lives.

By Presidential Decree, 2022-2031 was declared the Decade of Science and Technology in the Russian Federation.

* * *

R. Yunusov: Good afternoon, Vladimir Vladimirovich!

Good afternoon, dear colleagues!

Before we announce the beginning of our discussion, I would like to introduce you, Mr President, and colleagues, to the participants of our discussion today. I'll probably go from left to right.

Next to me is Alexey Fedorov, who heads the research group at the Russian Quantum Center and is the youngest professor in the history of MIPT.

Alexey E. Likhachev, head of Rosatom State Corporation, is with us.

Ilya Semerikov is the same Ilya who built the computer that we showed you, Mr Putin – using qubits, a 16-qubit quantum computer. Ilya heads a subgroup at the Russian Quantum Center and is an employee of the Physics Institute of the Academy of Sciences.

Nadezhda Borshchevskaya, who works in the optics laboratory of the Center for Quantum Technologies of Moscow State University, is also with us.

Oleg Valentinovich Belozerov-Head of Russian Railways .

And Vladimir Yegorov, who is Deputy Director of the ITMO National Center for Quantum Internet.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we just had time to have a few words with scientists, and you said: you know, happiness is in creativity. When we were preparing for the session, we discussed, oddly enough, the same signal, the same idea that we – as a scientific community – live in a time in which we are very happy guys. Because we have so many things going on that we creatively live this way – in ten years we have gone through something that people, sometimes, do not get this in their whole life.

I remember ten years ago, when Alexey Fyodorov and I, who was a 4th-year student at Baumanka, went and told us what a quantum computer is, we were told: this is all fiction, we don't believe it at all. And now, when we tell you - [questions are raised]: well, when will there be 100 qubits? Alexey Yevgenyevich says: when will you do everything for us in the Russian nuclear industry? Etc.

A very long way has been covered. And indeed, today we will talk about technology, but we will also talk about people, how they lived these years and how we came to such an event. Ten years ago, it was impossible to imagine such a forum – that the state would pay attention to quantum technologies at such a level.

Before we move on to the discussion, if I may, Mr President, I would like to invite you to make a speech.

You are welcome.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much.

I don't think it will be a fundamental speech, because the subject you are discussing is very special. Nevertheless, I am certainly happy to welcome all Russian and foreign scientists, engineers, business representatives, and all participants of the Future Technologies Forum.

Our host said that it was hard to imagine that such a forum could take place ten years ago. Why not? We wanted not only such forums to take place, but also to ensure that research is conducted, including by young researchers, so that we reach the parameters and results we need. I think it is very important that we achieve our goals – that we set ourselves achievable tasks that are necessary for our country, go to them confidently and achieve, as I have already said, results.

We hope that today's meeting will also become a traditional one, and it is already becoming a traditional one, to discuss promising areas that are already on the horizon of the current and early next decade and will gain more and more momentum. In many ways, all this will determine the shape of national economies, and the map of the world as a whole.

Of course, I will not talk about purely scientific things today – this is a matter for those who are sitting here with me, at least some of my colleagues, and those who are in the audience: no one knows this better than you, than the experts. But at the same time, I considered it important to tell you how we build our work at the state level, how we build international scientific and technological cooperation in the conditions of the de facto blockade declared by the Russian authorities and ruling elites, most likely the ruling elites, of some countries.

We are really facing pressure, with attempts to force us to give up our sovereignty and the right to choose our own historical path by restricting access to technology. Our opponents expected us to give up, to give up, but this will not happen, as we often say in such cases. Russia will only go forward, and in its own way, without isolating itself from anyone at the same time.

We respond to external challenges only by strengthening the quality and efficiency of our work and spreading freedom. By the way, this was also the case in 2014 – I have already mentioned this, and everyone knows it very well – when the first wave of external sanctions stimulated the rapid development of some of our areas, including agriculture.

Today, similar positive processes are gaining momentum in industry and in the technological sphere. At the same time, we understand that in the current conditions, the main thing for advanced development is to focus on priority tasks.

First, in areas where we already have global-level technologies and products, such as nuclear power, artificial intelligence, and many other areas.

Secondly, it focuses on those areas that are critical for the country's development and where we must necessarily have our own competencies. At the same time, we should have not just scientific developments and basic solutions, but the entire technological and production chain: our own equipment, element base, software, and, of course, people and personnel.

Of course, when solving the problems of technological sovereignty, we are not going to close ourselves, as I said at the very beginning, to close ourselves in ourselves. On the contrary, we intend to create and expand equal, mutually beneficial technological and scientific alliances with other states.

I would like to note that as part of Russia's BRICS presidency next year, we will discuss such specific projects with our partners in a number of important areas. This includes cutting-edge technologies for computing, processing, storing, and transmitting data. I will discuss this topic in more detail, if I may, especially since this issue is the focus of the Future Technologies Forum this year.

Our principal task is to transfer the entire economy, social sphere, government bodies, and the work of government bodies to qualitatively new principles of work, and introduce management based on new data – on the basis of big data. The effect, as we expect, will be fully complex, multiplicative. This is a multiple increase in the quality of management and labor productivity, jobs with advanced competencies and high wages, the availability of services, fundamentally different opportunities for our citizens and for people.

So, digital platforms will allow developing smart cities and unmanned systems, using "digital twins" of technical systems and their production processes, starting the widespread use of precision farming in agriculture, reaching a new level in logistics and energy, in the development of telemedicine and online education,in the provision of public services and financial settlements. In general, platform solutions will open the way to fully automate not only technological processes, but also relationships between market participants.

For such changes, everything related to data, big data, is critical. In fact, we are talking about a system-forming infrastructure for our further development, for the future of our economy as a whole. And it is obvious that dependence in this area means serious threats to national security, weakening, or even losing the country's sovereignty. We must certainly think about this and look to the future.

Let's put it bluntly: this is exactly what some countries were striving for when they tried to literally get our country hooked on foreign technology platforms and standards by any means, and we must admit: not without success. It is clear that interdependence is inevitable. It is clear that interdependence is an objective thing. But still, there is a difference between the general words about openness and your own shirt, which is closer to the body, and we often see this difference in practice.

We bought many critical technologies in this area, as they say, in someone else's store, in a kind of supermarket of ready-made solutions produced by someone. And at some point, the door was just tightly closed in front of us and a sign "Closed"was hung up.

We have learned our lessons and drawn the necessary conclusions. The government, public and private companies have already done a lot to change the state of affairs, but we certainly need to go further: we need to solve more complex, systemic tasks and plan this work for the long term.

I propose to prepare a new national project for the period up to 2030, namely the national project on the formation of the data economy, within a year. I would like to emphasize that we are not only talking about consolidating existing tools to support the development of the digital economy, artificial intelligence and high-tech projects, including the roadmaps for the development of quantum technologies that you are talking about today and that companies with state participation are trying to implement in practice – we are trying to implement developments in this area in practice.

It is necessary to build a holistic mechanism for creating and implementing cutting-edge developments everywhere. This actually applies to all technologies and spheres of life, of course. We talk about this a lot, we are gradually moving forward, and we are resolving these issues. But we need to speed up this work as much as possible, including in such areas as the formation of the data economy, which I have already mentioned.

Everything matters here: These include research, training of personnel at all levels of education, creating conditions for the production and testing of pilot products, demand for domestic products and services in the field of computing and working with data, as well as flexible regulation and support of production.

At the same time, it is fundamentally important to look systematically at the next technological order, to create industries and markets of the future. It is in this logic that the national project for the development of unmanned aircraft systems is built. As we agreed with our colleagues, I ask you to approve it by September 1, 2023, and also take this priority area into account when forming the budget for 2024 and the planning period until 2026.

Dear colleagues, the new national project on the formation of the data economy should cover all stages and levels of work.

The first is data collection. I mean, among other things, highly sensitive sensors, including quantum sensors, which radically improve the accuracy of positioning objects, allow detecting diseases at the earliest stages, and are used in other advanced areas, such as satellite and ground-based communication systems.

The second is data transmission and the development of communication systems. And not only the current generation, but also the next generations, which, according to forecasts, will be able to transmit information in real time, which is critically necessary for the development of robotics, unmanned transport systems and automation of the urban environment.

The third is a sovereign infrastructure for computing and data storage within the country. First of all, we are talking about domestic cloud platforms and data processing centers that will be able to effectively support the work of government agencies, enterprises, telecom operators, as well as computing power of their own production, including on qualitatively new principles. I am referring to computers, which my colleagues and I have just discussed and shown me, using quantum and photonic technologies, which we will discuss later.

The fourth is data security. Of course, we should fully take this aspect into account and keep it in mind. In particular, I consider it necessary to continue working on technologies of quantum communications and quantum encryption. Such technologies ensure the stability of information systems against cyber attacks using both classical and quantum computers, allow creating systems that are invulnerable to hacking, and develop secure quantum communication. By the way, Russia is among the leaders in this area. Of course, we are still taking only the first steps in this area, as our colleagues have already told us, but this is already a tangible and tangible result.

The fifth is sovereign and national standards and protocols for working with data. Such standards are necessary for reliable processing and storage of data, including personal information of citizens, for the use of quantum cryptography technologies, for cybersecurity, and for protection against attacks.

The sixth is algorithms for data processing and analysis, including solutions in the field of artificial intelligence, as well as domestic software. The availability of such national tools guarantees data sovereignty, significantly reduces dependence on foreign suppliers, and increases control over critical infrastructure.

And, of course, we need so-called code repositories – domestic platforms and services that are needed for programmers to work together not only from Russia, but also from other countries of the world. I would like to emphasize that work in all these areas should be aimed at a systematic change in all sectors of the economy, the social sphere, public administration, and the quality of life of people throughout our country.

Dear colleagues!

Now I would like to address in detail quantum technologies, which are the main topic of today's discussion. Now only at the exhibition, in a conversation with representatives of science, they tried to tell me about this in more detail. We need not only to solve current problems, but also to look ahead-beyond the horizon, try to expand human capabilities, manage the smallest objects, and put the most complex physical processes at the service of progress.

The quantum world is in no hurry to reveal all its secrets, but domestic researchers are ready to solve the most complex scientific problems, open the way to creating advanced solutions. And this aspiration, of course – I will repeat it once again, we have just spoken about it-we will support.

Please identify measures to support basic research, including increased funding, as part of the national project on building a data economy.

And I am referring to the scientific search for a wide range of computing technologies, many of which, as you know very well, work on the principles of quantum physics and mechanics, are connected with the achievements of both the first and the second quantum revolution that is developing before our eyes – as our host just told me at the exhibition-the second revolution, which became an incentive, among other things, for the creation of technologies for quantum computing and quantum computers.

However, according to all forecasts, promising computing systems will be just hybrid solutions that contain both the so-called quantum core and microelectronics technologies that have already become classic.

I note that every ten years, the performance of computers increases by about a thousand times. Integrated circuits today already contain tens of billions of transistors. The race here is at exorbitant speeds.

So, the new Sber supercomputer-Christofari Neo-is capable of producing about 12 thousand trillion operations per second, and the Yandex supercomputer-Chervonenkis-is almost twice as powerful. I know that these are not the first places in the world, but, in principle, the places are already quite noticeable, and this can be treated with respect: there is a development perspective.

At the same time, the demand for computing resources continues to grow, and our own sovereign solutions in this area are critically necessary for the development of artificial intelligence systems and for creating large neural network models. That is why it is so important for us to promote the domestic microelectronic industry. For this purpose, we are engaged in the development of serial production facilities for the production of high-purity materials and process media.

Many people know that a new scientific and technological center is being created in Zelenograd, and projects on technological equipment are being implemented, including with the participation of partners from Belarus. Let me remind you in this regard that it was the high level of cooperation in the Soviet era that provided conditions for training engineers to develop unique technologies for the development of outstanding scientific schools, including in the field of photonics. Thanks to strong fundamental groundwork, photonic integrated circuits are now a full-fledged working technology.

An intersectoral photonics cluster is being developed in Moscow, where research centers, startups, businesses, and universities work together to create new solutions and launch them into production. The same platforms for experimenting with future technologies – for testing them and implementing them in practice – need to be created in other advanced areas, and we need to work in other areas.

I know that the government of the capital – Sergey Semyonovich [Sobyanin] is here in the hall, and we have also discussed this topic many times – the government of the capital has started work on the creation of the Moscow quantum cluster. I would like to ask you, dear Sergey Semyonovich, to tell us about this in detail today. Well, if not in detail, then at least in general terms.

Dear colleagues!

I have repeatedly met with Russian scientists and our compatriots who work in foreign universities and research centers – just recently. Many people want to work in Russia, participate in interesting and significant research projects, including the question of resuming our mega-grant program, which allows us to gather strong research teams and solve interesting scientific problems.

This offer is fully supported. I ask the Government and the State Duma to make sure that the federal budget for the planned period up to 2026 includes the necessary funding for the mega-grant program, as well as to make changes to the program's parameters so that its conditions become even more attractive for researchers.

I think it is necessary to increase the maximum size of mega – grants, and what is very important, as my colleagues recently discussed with me, is to increase the time frame for their implementation to, say, five years-some say it would be good to have ten-to five years, with the possibility of extending it to three. It'll be almost ten by now.

First of all, we need to support major scientific projects of our compatriots and leading foreign researchers, including those who have already participated in the creation of world-class laboratories in Russia. In five years, a scientist should receive a total of half a billion rubles for his project, provided that he is ready to work in our country on a permanent basis.

A quarter of a billion rubles of support will be provided over five years to leading foreign scientists who will come to Russia, set up departments in our universities, engage in teaching activities, and work with undergraduates and postgraduates. Here, in fact, this is not much different from the previous conditions, but we will confirm them and expand them a little. As a result, our colleagues from abroad will form scientific schools in key priority areas of science and technology development.

Finally, another fundamentally new direction. As part of the updated mega-grant program, we will provide assistance to promising young researchers, including our compatriots who want to return to their homeland and make a significant contribution to scientific and technological solutions, and there are many of them.

I would like to emphasize that the updated megagrant program should be launched in a short time. We will be glad to see in our country researchers who share the principle of openness of science, devote their lives to scientific research, and are engaged in projects of the future. For our part, we will do everything necessary to ensure that the developments of tomorrow become globally competitive products today.

I would like to thank everyone who is involved in a lot of joint work in this area. Roscongress is particularly grateful for organizing our forum. The Russian Quantum Center, state-owned companies Rosatom and Russian Railways, whose leaders are represented here, innovative enterprises, leading research institutes and universities-for scientific and technological breakthroughs, for the constant desire to move forward.

Separate words of gratitude to the Russian Academy of Sciences for a deep scientific assessment of research and technological projects. I ask you, dear colleagues, to expand not only the expert support, but also the scientific and methodological support of our national development programs. I would like to add that this year marks the 300th anniversary of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and at the present stage of its development, the Russian Academy of Sciences unites scientists and businesses in solving the problems of scientific and technological sovereignty of our country.

I hope that the preparations for the next forum, which next year will be devoted to the development of neurocognitive and biomedical technologies, will be carried out in such close cooperation.

Thank you for your attention.

R. Yunusov: Thank you very much, Vladimir Vladimirovich!

A very thorough report and speech. We will work on it.

You can draw a couple of parallels that arise when listening to you, listening to speech, including about people, and about the "Closed"sign. We really felt this, Mr Putin, when so many doors were closed to us.

But this is a challenge! We are working, we have shown you what we are trying to do. Our spirit is at a good level. But when we discuss these things, we often come to the question: "Who are we anyway?" - the question of the symbols of modern times.

But before [talking] about new things, I would like to say: in 1937, Mukhina presented the composition "Worker and collective farm Girl". These were the symbols of that time-1937.

Vladimir Putin: Well, that's what you remembered, not something else from 1937.

R. Yunusov: We are positive, we have a positive forum.

And in the 1960s, when scientists had already managed to tame the energy of the atom, there was even such an expression: "physicists and lyricists." And the role of physicists was untouchable, it was really powerful: physicists often saved other people at this time, protected them. Then, of course, the 90s were difficult for science. In the last 20 years, we have seen very big changes.

And we ask ourselves the question, now discussing all these challenges with our colleagues: aren't we, researchers, heroes of the new age? Of course, we are not trying to take the whole podium here – that's for sure, we respect many other professions.

Do you think the role of a researcher is worthy of being the role of heroes of our time?

Vladimir Putin: You know, a researcher always leads the way, he is a pioneer in a certain sense, he is a fan of his field. And only fans succeed. This is the first one.

The second consideration is that every time requires its own heroes-and in the 60s, and this, of course, began a little earlier. If we recall 1937, it all started with Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria, who headed the atomic project, was partly related to the rocket project – it all started from there. Time demanded results in this particular area – and people working in this area, of course, became heroes of public consciousness.

These are different times, different priorities, and easy to test. The most recent VTsIOM research, in my opinion, was done just a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago, the most popular profession among young people is an IT specialist (31 percent), in second place – a doctor, a medic (30 percent), in third place – a soldier, defender of the Fatherland, and so on. But I would like to emphasize that the interest of young people in engineering professions has increased significantly, in my opinion, almost five times.

This still means that, despite the fact that some things seem to be in the field of view of people, I will not give characteristics for each of these areas now, but the fact that interest in engineering professions is growing many times is still a sign of our time.

As for the researchers, I want to repeat once again: they are ahead, they are pioneers. And – as you know better than I do, many, many Nobel laureates receive these prizes decades after the discoveries they have made. But they did not think about those rewards – they just went ahead. You should always bow your head low as a sign of respect in front of people of this kind and character.

R. Yunusov: Thank you very much.

I would now move on to the fans. Ilya Semerikov, even among our research community, looks clearly a fanatical person, which sometimes scares, but most often super-rejoices.

Ilya, share your experience, tell us what you wanted to convey to us.

Igor Semerikov: Indeed, fanaticism is about me, fortunately or unfortunately. In fact, at almost every step of my life, I ask myself the question: will this bring us closer to creating a useful quantum computer or not? If so, I don't need to ask myself any other questions. That's it, so we're doing it.

But the story for me didn't start today or yesterday. For me, this story began around 2015, when I realized that I didn't want to study astrophysics, but rather quantum optics. I went to the laboratory to see Nikolai Nikolaevich Kolachevsky, a theoretical astrophysicist who showed you the computer today, and asked: "Can I join you?" I am very grateful to Nikolai Nikolaevich for the fact that then he said to me, a person who still could not do anything, " Good. Please."

At about the same time, two other people came to the laboratory – Ilya Zalivako and Sasha Borisenko, who were still students at that time. We met them and started working together. It turned out that we are very different. Very. Almost any decision takes us hours, and we yell at each other, sometimes to the point of hoarseness. But at the same time, despite such a difference, every time we have this argument, each of us remembers: our main and in fact the only task for today is to build a quantum computer. Before that, we had other tasks. This difference and at the same time a very deep respect for each other, I would even say love, allow us to look at the problem from different angles and find some solution to it.

So we started working, and it was very important for us, because you can really learn something only by doing real work.

Yes, we graduated from the institute, we were taught, everything is fine. But to do something real, you have to do it. And from 2015 to 2017, we did the simplest things: catching ions, collecting traps, and so on. Then we started doing much more complex applied work. We made super-accurate watches for GLONASS for about three more years. Then work began on the "road map".

There was a big discussion about whether to include our ion platform at all, because by that time there were already some results in quantum computing on other platforms. And here I am very grateful to Rosatom, which then believed in us, said: yes, we need to do this as well. And we were very encouraged.

Since then, for about three years, we have been living in the laboratory-Saturdays, Sundays, Mondays. The only thing that saves us is that the FIAN closes at eleven. If not, we would have spent the night there.

As of today, we have already been able to build the quantum computer that you were shown. What is very important and gratifying for us is that he does some useful things that do not follow directly from him, that is, he models molecules, and does not engage in some scientific abstraction. This is very important for us. Of course, our dream is to make a useful quantum computer. To make a quantum computer that would actually solve problems faster than a supercomputer, which would be useful to a wide range of people.

It seems to me that today we have a whole set of ideas on how to do this, how to make a car that would really make the revolution that it should make. But it's a long job. It took almost 10 years to form the team – from the moment we started doing any first work at all, almost 10 years have passed until today. During these 10 years, we have learned a lot.

Vladimir Putin: The main thing is that the participants in the trial do not retire. (Laughter.)

Igor Semerikov: Yes, I am 31 years old, for example, today, and Ilya and Sasha are probably 27 and 29, and in general in our group I am the oldest of those who live in the laboratory. So we still have 10 years for sure, we'll see what happens next, but we should have 10 years.

This is the next thing, that is, we will have to implement all those ideas and attempts for another 10 years. And they are also born in the process of working: you do it, it doesn't work. The experimenter always knows that if you do something, it will never work the first time. We may have had literally a couple of episodes where it worked out the first time.

And it is important for us to make this computer, and for this we need support. We are very grateful that you mentioned that you really need to look at both 25-30 and 30 plus, and this is important for us.

On the other hand, we are ready to start commercializing these technologies. We are ready to create, in addition to the "roadmaps" that exist, some startups, some small enterprises, so that this thing does not stand in the laboratory, but begins to spread not only within Russia, but also, preferably, around the world. I think that the technological level that we have reached already allows us to do this.

Vladimir Putin: You know, I can only envy you, and also sympathize with people who longingly think that tomorrow they will go to work, but you do not want to leave work. Because, yes, this is happiness. That's what happiness is all about.

Igor Semerikov: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: When a person lives by the cause to which he has devoted his life.

You know, I'll share it with you. Of course, I am far from such a state, but sometimes people ask: how did you come up with something specific? The answer is very simple: because I think about it all the time, day and night. Yes, I fall asleep-I think about it, I wake up-I think about it, and the solution of some question is completely unexpected. I think that you and your colleagues are also in this paradigm.

Igor Semerikov: That's how we live. Every day I come home late at night, usually, and always tell my wife what happened today. All our communication revolves around two things: a quantum computer and people. These are the two things that are most interesting to me in my life today. Let's see what happens next.

Vladimir Putin: Don't forget about your wife, it will cost you dearly.

Igor Semerikov: Our wives are also heroines.

R. Yunusov: Thank you, Ilya. This is, of course, according to the Department of Rosatom-to launch the "road map", to achieve the first results.

Alexey Yevgenyevich, can you comment on Ilya's life and how you can live in a laboratory, but at the same time be a part of Rosatom?

Alexey Likhachev: In general, if we talk about the road map, then, of course, it was a big challenge for us. But I think that everyone who has to do with the administrative system will understand me.

Mr Putin, I apologize, of course, for my frankness. When you are called to the Government and they say that in three or four years, if there are no sources of funding, you need to demonstrate a result whose appearance is unclear, technologies do not exist, but the Government and the Academy of Sciences will look after you. In this sense, of course, the image of Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria, who led the nuclear industry at the stage of its creation, is immediately born in the soul, and I would like, of course, not to disgrace the highly raised banner of the Soviet and Russian nuclear industry. This is, of course, such an emotional part.

It was a very big challenge, and I am also very grateful to those who launched the roadmap: Andrey Ramovich Belousov, Maxim Stanislavovich Oreshkin, Dmitry Nikolaevich Chernyshenko is currently working on this task, and Gennady Yakovlevich is helping us a lot. And we have really built a unique "road map" – not as a management mechanism, but as a mechanism for creating interaction, mutual support and, I'm not afraid of this word, trust.

Then, three years ago, by the way, Lyosha Fyodorov was still three years younger, of course, we didn't really understand how to build relationships with about a dozen scientific groups working in different universities, and among the wise leaders (Viktor Antonovich Sadovnichy is one of the leaders of all emgeush programs there). and with very young guys.

What we did, in general, became, on the one hand, the back office of this work, taking on a certain administrative burden of work under the 44th law, with public money, and colleagues trusted us and in a good sense of the word did not ask unnecessary questions. This has probably produced, within two years, a very short period of time, the results that we have even found the courage to show to the President of the Russian Federation today.

The second point, which is very important, our second role and our second ministry, is, of course, to attract as actively as possible into the nuclear industry quantum technologies that are still emerging, you know, what is called, not able to speak or walk, but already existing technologies. They need to be drawn into the nuclear industry at a faster pace, with confidence, and industrialize them as quickly as possible. Do you understand? Make them an integral part of the technological landscape.

On the other hand, we understand that taking into account this huge external pressure, we need to lend a shoulder to our scientists on the component base, on some installations, because import substitution is no longer import substitution, but in fact technological sovereignty, and this is largely determined by the work of the state corporation and our other colleagues. Gazprombank is also doing a lot of work – Oleg Valentinovich will tell us about his work in a separate way, I hope.

To conclude this brief presentation, I would like to say that we are really proud of this result and of the – I'm not afraid of the word-family of the quantum community that is now emerging, the trust that exists, and the level that we in the country – " We " with a capital letter –have achieved. we have achieved this in just two and a half years.

This level now gives us two very important points. Vladimir Vladimirovich, thank you very much for using both of them in your speech.

The first. We can now offer international cooperation on an equal footing – within the framework of BRICS, within the framework of bilateral cooperation. Not from the rear of the column, but from the peloton, as cyclists say, to offer cooperation in the framework of educational programs and research.

There was a wonderful proposal at the meeting with scientists about the appearance of the "Brix Nobel", relatively speaking, a certain recognition, a certain prize. This is a very important result.

The second very important thing I want to say. Still, today we can really implement this model – whatever you want to call it, a prototype, a simulator, but it's still a computer – and we can really start implementing it in other industries as well. Even if it is still at the level of staff training, creating, if you want, a taste for this work and demand, but again these are not presentations and diagrams, they are really working products.

And, of course, in the "road map", and you, Mr Putin, said that it will not be a" road map " now, but probably one of the federal projects of a large national project, we already understand what to draw before the end of the 20s, what goals and objectives to go out by the 30s and how to bring this industrial platform, if you want, this new quantum industry closer. This is exactly the same option as three years ago. The image is completely incomprehensible, only the main meanings are clear, but we can not just form this space, we can significantly bring it closer to our present day.

R. Yunusov: Thank you, Alexey Yevgenyevich.

Today we showed solutions to quantum chemistry problems, which are useful tasks that will help bring medicines, new materials, and so on. But a quantum computer also poses a threat, a threat to standard encryption systems, and quantum physicists are actually thinking about this problem, you were shown.

Vladimir Yegorov is engaged in the field of how to build a quantum shield. Vladimir, tell me, please.

Vladimir Yegorov: Good afternoon, Mr Putin.

Good afternoon, dear colleagues!

Yes, indeed, it was said earlier that a quantum computer has many interesting applications. And much more interesting to use than hacking many existing ciphers today. That is why the NATO countries, China and a number of other countries are also very actively engaged in quantum computing, but we are fighting this threat by developing quantum communications.

Quantum information security systems allow you to distribute encryption keys in such a way that they cannot be stolen or copied from the communication line. They also have other advantages, in particular, they allow you to automate the process of sending keys and change them more often. But quantum communications will not replace, but complement, existing secure data transmission networks. Accordingly, they have a number of limitations, and therefore their most productive use is in conjunction with other promising information security technologies, such as post-quantum cryptography and others. So I think that by working together with our industry colleagues and with the industry regulator, we can forge a strong digital shield for our country.

Now the quantum communications industry has reached the most important stage-the transition from a scientific laboratory to implementation. It is supposed that it will go in three phases.

The first is the creation of backbone quantum networks for key transfer, which is already underway.

In the second phase, after certification and attestation, external subscribers will be connected. And it is very important that as many organizations from different sectors of the economy as possible participate in this process, so that we can cover all potential areas of application.

Finally, in the long run, it is assumed that quantum communications will be used not only for protection, but also for transmitting information. The Internet of Things objects will also become subscribers, and we will switch to a full-fledged quantum Internet.

What are the prospects for quantum communication? In fact, to be honest, no one can fully answer this question today. I would draw analogies with the cosmic sphere here.

When the first satellite was launched, no one could have imagined that in half a century we would have space communications, photos of the Earth, and many other applications. So are quantum technologies: they have huge potential, and quantum connectivity is at the heart of it, because it connects computing, communications, and experiences together.

I work in the industry, although I am still very young, already 16 years old. I saw how the attitude towards her changed. At first it was perceived as science fiction, but now you come to the exhibition, and any schoolchild says: yes, we read on the Internet, quantum communication, everything is clear.

At the dawn of the roadmap, I was invited to Russian Railways to talk about the technology. I remember explaining the basic postulates of quantum mechanics-Oleg Valentinovich was there at the time – with a pair of colorful socks. I was wondering how this could be implemented under the auspices of such a fairly conservative industry as railways.

In the end, everything worked out, and now, when I go from St. Petersburg, my native city, to Moscow, I look at the wires outside the window and think: here it is – our first quantum highway.

It turned out that the "road map" mechanism became very effective, because it linked together the creative chaos of the scientific environment and the clear order of the state-owned company, gave the industry an impetus and set such a vector of movement.

One of the main tasks of the road map today is, of course, the development of human resources, since, as we know, human resources solve everything. According to forecasts, by 2030, more than 1,300 specialists with higher education will be required in quantum communications, and this is not counting the thousands of specialists who will pass the E-learning and open source programs.

These are not only scientists, but also specialists-implementers, engineers, designers, and so on. Accordingly, more than ten Russian universities are already running educational programs on quantum communications.

I want to mention, probably, the most important thing in my speech: quantum communications is the science of the young. Breakthrough research on the road map and other development programs is conducted by students, postgraduates, young candidates and doctors of sciences up to 40 years old. Many of them also conduct teaching activities in parallel. In our team, as Ilya also said, I am one of the oldest, and it is a great joy for me to watch how very young guys immerse themselves in science and, without exaggeration, achieve world-class results. That's probably the best part of my job: looking at people who are even younger than me.

I believe that it is very important to preserve and increase this intellectual capital in quantum communications and other high-tech industries by supporting young scientists.

Today, this support is mainly expressed in the form of grants and scholarships. But I've had a lot of conversations with young scientists and I know how they live, and it would be great if you could consider supporting the proposal to expand state social support for young scientists. Such measures could include, for example, preferential mortgage lending, benefits for children when entering educational institutions, as well as a deferral from conscription, similar to the way they have been operating in the IT industry recently.

I should note that the image of Russian science has changed dramatically in recent decades. It began to attract a lot of young people. Being a scientist has even become fashionable. I believe that our work and the measures that can be taken in addition will make it possible to further accelerate the development of the industry, retain even more young personnel in it, and attract and continue the glorious traditions of Soviet and Russian science.

Thank you very much.

R. Yunusov: Mr President, would you like to comment?

Vladimir Putin: What should I comment on? You can only agree. So we will do it.

We can agree that we need to support young researchers, and we have a lot of young researchers, more and more-this is true.

We talked about the laboratories that we have created as a result of mega-grants, and we have a lot of such laboratories, if memory serves, 346, and not only in our leading research centers, but also in about ten cities that previously were not particularly distinguished by the fact that they created large, good research schools.

As part of this work, one of the conditions was, in fact, even at the suggestion of the scientists who conducted these studies in laboratories, they themselves suggested that we create conditions for our young Russian researchers. That's what we did, and that's what we did. Today, 50 percent of the researchers in these laboratories are young scientists and graduate students.

Of course, there is still a lot of work to be done here: both domestic issues need to be resolved, and an appropriate base should be created, and an instrument base should be created – all this is known, and it is clear how to move. We'll do it all – that's all.

R. Yunusov: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich!

We have a very interesting discussion going on, but, as always, when the discussion is interesting, there may not be enough time. I would ask the speakers to speak more compactly, so that we can reach all the participants and give everyone the floor.

Of course, Oleg Valentinovich, this is your department. Indeed, no one expected that the Russian Railways, having entered the quantum industry three years ago, were already shown today, and we saw how the highways work, how inter-university communications work.

Maybe you can add something about how you see the situation in general, which will develop.

Oleg Belozerov: Thank you very much.

Mr President, I would like to start by thanking you for supporting such a very specific format. Here we say: "road map", but the "road map" is actually an unusual format of interaction with the state. We seem to be on an equal footing, but usually the opposite happens – either we or the Government, and, accordingly, everyone has their own KPIs, and the results do not always converge. Here we are united: all results can only be achieved together. And you just supported such a mechanism, and as you said, you saw the result today.

We are a very pragmatic industry, applied, we have a result-transportation of passengers and cargo. And traditionally the question was asked: where is the quantum? It is quantum communication.

I'll give you a few figures. I believe that you have strategically seen a very important component – this is data protection. We have an accumulated amount of information – 32 petabytes, which is ^10-15, as my colleagues told me. Everything that moves on the railway is always recorded-this is information. Information is transmitted quickly and needs to be protected.

Last year, the volume of attacks on our systems per day was 277 thousand. Together with our colleagues, thank you very much to Rostelecom and other colleagues, we reflected. We clearly understand that our information system will be of interest and they will somehow try to get into it. But these quantum communications give us an absolute understanding that when used with other systems, safety and reliability – these are two key factors of the railway – will be clearly preserved.

We were given an applied format – this is quantum communications. There were already some developments that we have brought together with our colleagues. In fact, we are very pleased with this conservatism. As you said, it's important to be passionate. And so we were carried away. We moved forward. Our colleagues are traditional railway workers, and it was necessary to see how much they are implementing this project with such interest.

Today, as you have already said, we are among the leaders in the world in terms of the length of the quantum network. Our colleagues create our absolutely domestic equipment, which gives us confidence that we will double our network next year and in 2024 it will be 7 thousand kilometers, in 2030-15 thousand kilometers will already be covered by quantum communication.

We are not standing still, we are actively moving forward in other areas as well. A lot is really said about personnel. Together with research centers, we have concluded an agreement on specific figures, how many researchers and graduates we should receive with what data.

Many thanks to the Government. Standardization always usually acts as a brake. If you approach standardization correctly, it will be a step forward.

Just two days ago, thank you very much, the Government signed our Concept for the development of regulatory Relations in the field of quantum communications. Everything is spelled out, everything is clear. I think this will also give us an opportunity to move forward.

We are not stopping at Earth – our colleagues have already reported to you today - and we have signed an agreement with Moscow State University: we are now opening our engineering center at Vorobyovy Gory together with Moscow State University, and we will explore together with them, and even more – our colleagues will explore, and then we will use the results in our work in the field of space technologies.

In conclusion, I would like to say that we have already moved from theory to practice, and I hope we have demonstrated this today.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Railway transport is particularly important in Russia. This is a fundamental basic industry, on which the entire economy is built, as well as on the energy sector. Here, security, speed, security – many factors are extremely important.

It is extremely important that the industry does not stand still, but develops on the basis of the latest technology. This can only be welcomed. Frankly speaking, Oleg Valentinovich has just said that you supported, did this, and did that. I am proud that I did not interfere – they did everything right.

We can thank you for that.

R. Yunusov: Thank you very much!

When we were preparing for the forum, Oleg Valentinovich told us such interesting things behind the scenes: how their engineers, who had not even heard what quantum technologies were before, now say: "Yes, this is cool, this is ours." The level of engagement itself is already driving innovative thinking, as I understand it, and not only in these areas. So there's a lot of side remarkable results going on.

We talked about information security, but still, a quantum computer is not only an attack, it is really algorithms that should be used in industry and in the city. I would ask Alexey Fedorov to tell us. Alexey has been working on algorithms for several years, trying them out. Please tell us about your experience.

Alexander Fyodorov: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,

Dear colleagues!

I would like to continue the topic of moving from theory to practice, because, as Ilya said, our dream is a useful quantum computer, and utility is largely determined by the economic demand, in order to do useful tasks for the company.

We see that there are very vivid examples in the world when the growth of demand for quantum technologies is stimulated and this allows us to make bright projects both for connecting to quantum networks, transmitting information, and for pilot implementations of quantum computers. Despite the fact that today they do not show an economic effect, this advanced work on algorithms and software is needed now so that by the time hardware appears, we will understand how to use it to solve useful industry problems.

In this sense, many thanks to the pioneers of the industry-Gazprombank, which applies quantum technologies in the financial sector, and Rosatom, of course, together with which we are not just engaged in creating a quantum computer, we see that the tasks of the nuclear industry are very complex, important tasks in which a quantum computer can be useful. And the first approaches to the projectile – solving problems of thermal conductivity for a new generation of reactors, the problem of optimization in the electric power industry, and much,much more, that is, we see many applications for quantum computers. We are happy to lead this work.

Speaking about making the quantum computer a useful tool for everyone, we are also grateful to the Moscow government, because thanks to our work with colleagues, we have seen a new application perspective that will allow us to really solve the complex optimization problems that the city faces: in logistics, in delivery, in urban planning, in designing new production blocks, in data processing, in information protection, to find solutions. By improving the efficiency of solving these optimization problems, we can increase the quality of life of every person, every citizen.

We are glad that such clusters and centers for implementing quantum technologies are being created. It seems to us that for the horizon of 25-30 years, the creation of such implementation centers for cross-industry implementations of quantum computing and quantum communications is a very important task.

I can't help but say that the really cross – cutting topic of our entire forum is people. My colleagues Evgeny Kikitenko and Nastya Nikolaeva were also behind the demonstration of quantum algorithms. They have done a lot of work to use quantum computers to solve small problems, but they are already meaningful and useful. It is important for us that our entire large quantum family is happy that we are doing interesting tasks and seeing the benefits of quantum technologies that we can bring.

Vladimir Putin: We can only wish you success.

You just showed me a quantum computer. As a colleague said here, it was possible to understand this from the first approach to the projectile. Impressive, of course, especially when you showed that calculations in normal mode on modern supercomputers would take almost centuries, and on quantum computers the result is achieved in a matter of hours or days – this is, of course, impressive.

It is impressive and it becomes clear how important these modern technologies of the future are in the development of any economy and not only the economy, but all spheres of society. We can only wish you success. We will support this progress in every possible way.

Alexander Fedorov: Thank you very much.

R. Yunusov: Thank you.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, you mentioned in your speech Sergey Sobyanin, who is currently creating the Moscow quantum cluster. If possible, I would ask for a microphone to comment to Sergey Semyonovich.

Sergei Sobyanin: Good afternoon, dear colleagues!

Vladimir Vladimirovich, you instructed us to be more active in supporting photonic and quantum technologies in Moscow. This is logical, because many of our enterprises have high global competencies in these areas.

As for photonic technologies, we have created a photonic cluster – a cluster of photonics and microelectronics, and we have identified the creation of photonic integrated circuits for transceivers as the central project of this cluster, which includes about 50 enterprises in Moscow. This is a technology that allows you to speed up data processing and transmission by about 100 times. This is a technology that is not some kind of fantasy today, it is something that is being implemented in many countries. And if we don't have time with these technologies, then we will have to get ready-made products, as we used to get, again standing in line for these technologies.

We have started construction of a laboratory and industrial center in Zelenograd. It will be built next year. I hope that we will equip it with equipment and in 2025 we will receive the first products that, in fact, should provide our country's consumers – these are mobile operators, data processing centers, Internet service providers, and so on, and so on. This allows you to reduce energy consumption, speed up data transmission and get a completely different economy.

As for quantum technologies, we are working in two directions, with colleagues who are sitting here. At the St. Petersburg Forum, Oleg Valentinovich and I signed an agreement to create a connected quantum center on the basis of the Lomonosov Research Center, which we opened not so long ago. This will be one of the directions of this cluster.

We signed the second agreement today with Rosatom and the Russian Quantum Center for the construction of a laboratory and industrial center, a building in Skolkovo, which we have to build by next year, and, in fact, new technologies, startups, laboratories, and product samples will be created there.

We are not engaged in scientific research, our task is to create the infrastructure, help to concentrate on these sites today's disparate enterprises and find for them future buyers of their products, future consumers, including industrial enterprises in Moscow and city, as Alexey just said.

We are talking about healthcare, education, transport, urbanism, and so on. Technologies should be introduced today, and some solutions should really be developed, so that those who develop industrial technologies in this area already understand where their consumer is. It is very important.

Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

R. Yunusov: Mr President, I will add on my own behalf. You have traveled a lot in the cities of the world…

Initially, when we started building the quantum Center to gain experience, it seemed that it was good to live there, but in the end, the final opinion was that the best city to live in in terms of infrastructure, in terms of comfort in general, was Moscow.

It is very nice that Moscow is looking further to remain the best city to live in – this is not a compliment, it is actually true – that we live in the best city in the world, I believe.

This is also an important point to attract scientists. We tell them: at least come to us for a week and take a look. They're like, " Yeah, wow." This is how it works.

Vladimir Putin: All right. According to many independent estimates of competent experts, Moscow is recognized as one of the best megacities in the world by many indicators. So it is in fact. It is enough even to look at the external appearance of Moscow, to see how the transport infrastructure is developing.

Remember: more recently, ten years ago, it was considered that solving Moscow's transport problems is not difficult, but impossible. They are solved. I am not saying that everything has been solved, but they are being solved very effectively, including with the use of modern technologies in transport, road construction, and so on.

Of course, there is always something to criticize the current government for, including at the regional level. There is always one. Because in such a huge economy, there can be no omissions. But in general, Moscow's progress towards achieving maximum results for Moscow residents and for those who come here to work on a permanent basis, for guests of our capital, is, of course, obvious.

I would like to emphasize once again that this is achieved through the use of modern technologies. We can only be happy and wish that Moscow continues to develop in the same way under the leadership of the Mayor of Moscow and his team.

R. Yunusov: Thank you.

Here I would still remember that Oleg Valentinovich mentioned space technologies, and with us the representative of space technologies – Nadezhda Borshchevskaya is really engaged in space quantum communication.

Natalia Borshchevskaya: Yes, indeed, I represent Moscow State University here, and we are engaged in scientific developments that are designed to improve the availability of currently existing quantum networks, such as the interuniversity quantum network already presented today.

The space segment of quantum communications makes it possible to significantly expand the geographical coverage of these technologies and connect remote territories. For example, this will allow connecting Moscow and the Far East without creating an extensive ground infrastructure. In future stages, it will also be possible to connect mobile devices in the transport sector, as well as create a global quantum network, connecting its space and ground segments.

The promise of these technologies is also confirmed by the fact that other countries, such as China, are actively developing technologies for quantum key distribution in space. But at Moscow State University, we have everything necessary for such work on space quantum communication to be carried out successfully, and there is a large scientific and technical reserve. So, our specialists developed and launched small artificial Earth satellites of the appropriate design, conducted experiments on the quantum distribution of the key through free spaces. At Moscow State University, there are a number of astronomical observatories in different parts of our country, which will also be convenient to use for experiments on space quantum communication.

In addition, we strive to ensure that our developments do not remain just scientific developments, but eventually reach specific consumers, so we actively interact with our industrial partner and with a special laboratory that certifies quantum cryptographic devices.

In addition, I would like to say that our team and many other teams involved in quantum technologies employ a large number of students. Their contribution to our work is very important, as they bring their own forward-looking ideas to our work. Therefore, I think it is important that we can support them and they can confidently engage in scientific activities throughout their studies. Therefore, it would be great if we could create a new scholarship, which can be named after the outstanding professor of Moscow State University David Nikolaevich Klyshko, whose work has served as a groundwork for the development of quantum technologies in our country.

Vladimir Putin: You can think about it. Viktor Antonovich and I will talk about this topic, of course, absolutely.

In general, how do you assess the Russian level in comparison with your partners and competitors in space communications?

Natalia Borshchevskaya: In terms of fiber quantum communication, we are on a global level, but in terms of space communication, we are still quite far behind, about 10 years, just from China and other countries.

Vladimir Putin: What are the prospects? How do you rate them? What needs to be done to move forward with confidence?

N. Borshchevskaya: Our project on space quantum communication is already on the roadmap and is already starting right now, in the coming months. In three years, the first satellite launch and testing of our technologies are planned.

Vladimir Putin: So there are specific steps planned, right?

N. Borshchevskaya: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Excellent. You mentioned an industrial partner. Who's that?"

N. Borshchevskaya: Infotex Company.

Vladimir Putin: How does he help you? What tasks do you solve for them?

N. Borshchevskaya: This is a company that brings our scientific developments to mass production.

Vladimir Putin: What exactly? Just curious. What do you do for them?

N. Borshchevskaya: What do we do for them?

Vladimir Putin: Yes.

N. Borshchevskaya: We are taking the very first steps. We come up with what technologies should be used, how to implement quantum key distribution. This company does exactly the design work.

Vladimir Putin: That is, it is already implementing something specific.

N. Borshchevskaya: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: That's great.

We'll talk about scholarships, okay?

Natalia Borshchevskaya: Thank you.

R. Yunusov: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we talked about quantum computing and technology today, but most of it was devoted to people, especially young scientists, who are making and creating these achievements today. But there is a downside. You saw that they were real people. The downside of living people is that they are anxious, they are often irrationally anxious. I'm told: "What if the Government cancels science for this difficult time, until better times?" I say: The fact that you came here today is a powerful signal for our community. Even without listening to that speech, in which a lot of signals of support were revealed, we showed that the very fact that you are here on stage with our guys is a powerful signal for us.

So thank you so much for being here today!

Vladimir Putin: Even the all-powerful Government of the Russian Federation cannot abolish science. This is absolutely impossible. There's no need to think that way.

The Deputy Prime Minister is sitting here, Chernyshenko, perhaps you can tell us about the Government's intentions? Please give me a microphone.

Do you have any plans to cancel science? Tell me honestly.

Dmitry Chernyshenko: Mr President, of course not. We run your errands. According to your instructions, spending on science in the 47th state program for scientific and technological development-1.2 trillion rubles-should not decrease from year to year. So science is safe.

Vladimir Putin: Dmitry Nikolaevich said about the fact that they carry out my instructions. And the Government of the Russian Federation is achieving significant, visible results, especially in today's difficult time. But as for mega-grants, the Ministry of Education and Science needs to take a closer look at the instructions that were given earlier, and the Government as a whole – I ask you to pay attention to this. Because the corresponding resources for 2025 have not yet been laid down.

Dmitry Chernyshenko: It's true. Only for 2024, 2 billion. This measure has been in effect on your behalf since 2010. You surprisingly correctly remember how many laboratories were created – 246 in 151 universities…

Vladimir Putin: No, 346.

Dmitry Chernyshenko: 346, yes.

Vladimir Putin: And they don't give money for 2025, and they underestimate the number of laboratories.

Dmitry Chernyshenko: So we will work on this together with your help and the Ministry of Finance.

Vladimir Putin: All right, Dima. Thank you.

Alexey Likhachev: Mr President, I've been here for literally 30 seconds. Just a little bit after all, Ruslan, I'll correct you.

Of course, Vladimir Vladimirovich, your visit today and our reports are a huge inspiring fact, a kind of medal, but, as you know, every medal has two sides.

Therefore, I would like to appeal to my colleagues in the quantum department: this is also a big responsibility and a huge advance. In a year's time, at the next conference, we will have to represent a completely different level.

R. Yunusov: We will keep the answer.

Vladimir Putin: Next year, I have already announced the topic of the future forum, which is extremely interesting. We discussed this at a meeting with my colleague just now. Biotechnologies and everything related to them are also one of the fundamental areas of development.

Very interesting. I am sure that it will be held at the same high level as this forum. I would like to thank all the organizers for the work that was done during the preparation and organization of this forum.

Thank you very much!

R. Yunusov: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we will be waiting for you next year, and we will prepare.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you! Good luck!

And now we have the informal post-session presser that deals with Vilnius and Grain:

Question: The completed NATO summit. There, of course, it is already difficult to understand: they promise Ukraine membership in NATO, they do not promise, or they just, as they say, loom something in front of their noses. But still, some kind of easier path is supposedly promised.

In addition, the G7 adopted a declaration on certain security guarantees for Ukraine. It is stated that Ukraine will be supported "as long as it takes," this is a quote. Paris starts delivering long-range missiles.

How can you assess all this and how serious threats it poses to the security of Russia, and Ukraine too?

Vladimir Putin: As for Ukraine's membership in NATO, we have repeatedly said this-it obviously poses threats to Russia's security. And, as a matter of fact, the reason for the special military operation, one of the reasons, is the threat of Ukraine's entry into NATO.

I am sure that this will not increase the security of Ukraine itself, and in general will make the world much more vulnerable and lead to additional tension in the international arena.

So I don't see anything good in it. Our position is well known and has long been formulated.

As for the supply of weapons, various weapons, we can see how many hopes were pinned on the supply of fairly long-range missiles. So what? Yes, they cause damage, but nothing critical happens in the war zone with the use of these missiles. The same applies to foreign-made tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

As of last night, 311 tanks have been destroyed since July 4 alone, of which a significant part, I think one third at least, is made in the West, including Leopards.

I can tell you that Ukrainian servicemen often refuse to even get into these tanks. Why? Because they are a priority target for our guys, they are destroyed first of all on the battlefield – and this is an unpleasant circumstance that, in general, prevents their use. And they burn just like all the others – even better than the rest of the famous Soviet-made T-72s.

Therefore, from the point of view of a possible change [in the situation] on the battlefield, a new supply of new weapons will not do anything – it will only aggravate the situation, and it will aggravate the situation for the Ukrainian side and will further inflame the conflict. If someone is interested in this, and, apparently, there are such interested parties, then this is the best way to implement this task – to incite the conflict further, to supply new weapons.

Now about security. We have already said many times that any country has the right to ensure its own security, and, of course, it has the right to choose the way to achieve this goal that it considers the most appropriate.

There is only one limitation. It is related to the fact that, while achieving the security of one country, there should be no threat to another country. Therefore, we proceed from the understanding that this principle, which has been repeatedly declared in various international documents, will still be taken into account. And Ukraine, of course, has the right to ensure its own security.

By the way, in the draft document that I have already mentioned many times, namely, the draft agreement between Russia and Ukraine, which was prepared in Istanbul and which was later thrown into the trash by the Ukrainian regime, the issues of ensuring Ukraine's security were set out in great detail in this draft. We still had to think about whether we agreed with everything that was stated there, but in general I think that this document was acceptable.

Therefore, it is not unusual for us to see what has now been declared both in NATO and in the G7, and we are not against discussing issues of this kind. But I repeat once again: under the mandatory condition of ensuring the security of the Russian Federation.

Question: Mr President, may I ask you something? They say that the grain deal is under threat, and that part of the conditions of the Russian Federation regarding our exports is not being fulfilled, and that Mr. Erdogan has something to tell you about this in person, and that you have received a letter from the UN.

Can you shed some light on this?

Vladimir Putin: Of course, there are no secrets here.

The fact is that this deal was initially justified by the UN and the Secretary – General [Antonio Guterres] as a deal aimed primarily and mainly at helping the world's poorest countries-in order to prevent hunger there.

I would like to emphasize once again that the rise in prices for food, for food products, for what is produced by agriculture in the whole world, for fertilizers is not due to a special military operation. It is related to the mistakes of leading Western economies in the field of finance and investment, including in the energy sector.

For many, many years, the basic principles of energy development were ignored, alternative energy sources were used, investments in the oil and gas sector were not paid enough attention, and some countries abandoned nuclear energy.

As a result, the opposite result was achieved in the energy sector, and prices crept up. Investments were not made in a timely manner – deficits began to be created there. Now it is not available, but in general, the threat of these deficits due to the fact that there is no investment in the industry has arisen, and prices have risen. In the field of finance – I have also repeatedly mentioned this.

These are well-known things, but they just prefer not to talk about it, because these are obvious punctures in the economic policy of Western countries. What I mean: in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic, we have begun to support both citizens and individual sectors of the economy. We did it too, but we did it in a reasonable amount. But they didn't: they printed a huge amount of money, started shoveling food from the world market to their countries, and put the poorest countries in a very difficult situation.

In connection with the start of a special military operation, they decided to blame everything on Russia, as they say, from a sore head to a healthy one. We have absolutely nothing to do with it. Yes, of course, the use of sanctions as a competitive tool-they, using these tools of sanctions policy, have worsened the situation on the world food and energy markets. We did not make it worse, but they did lead to this result by their actions.

And the so-called grain deal was justified by the desire to support the poorest countries. I have already said many times: of the total amount of food, primarily grain, exported from the territory of Ukraine, just over three percent only went to the poorest countries of the world – only three percent with a little. Everything else – to a well-fed, prosperous Europe. But many European countries have begun to abandon Ukrainian grain. They started discriminating against Ukrainian grain – not us.

As for the conditions under which we agreed to ensure the safety of Ukrainian grain exports, yes, there were points of this agreement with the UN, according to which it was necessary to take into account Russian interests. This is logistics, this is insurance, this is the movement of money associated with the payment of our products, and many other aspects. Nothing – I want to emphasize this-was done at all. Everything is a one-goal game. Not a single point related to the interests of the Russian Federation has been fulfilled.

Despite this, we have voluntarily extended this so-called deal many times. Repeatedly. Well, look, that's enough, after all. We are being told now: you will now once again agree to the extension, and we will still fulfill our promises to you.

We'll think about it – we still have a few days – we'll think about what to do. But if we are told that they will fulfill the promises made to us, by the way, which were also registered with the UN. And I know that the Secretary-General and the United Nations staff who deal with this issue are sincerely striving to meet the relevant conditions, including with regard to Russia – I have no doubts. But they are not succeeding, because Western countries are not going to fulfill their promises.

As one of the options: not first renew, and then fulfill promises, but first fulfill promises, and then our participation. What do I mean? We can suspend our participation in this transaction, and if everyone once again says that all the promises made to us will be fulfilled, let them fulfill this promise – and we will immediately join this transaction. Again.

Question: Tell me, in this regard, there may be a connection to SWIFT of Rosselkhozbank, right? One of the conditions.

Vladimir Putin: This is just talk. Although this is one of the conditions. There's still freight. SWIFT is about money transfers, yes, it matters. There is logistics, foreign ships entering our ports, and so on.

Question: Does the UN letter contain any new information?…

Vladimir Putin: No, I have not seen this new letter, but we are in contact with the United Nations staff. I'll say it again: they sincerely strive to ensure that Western countries fulfill their obligations, but so far they are not succeeding. And we, I repeat once again, are told: extend it again. Or you can do this: we will extend it exactly at the moment when the promises made to us are fulfilled.

Q: The deal expires on July 18. How long are we willing to wait for them to start performing?

Vladimir Putin: As long as it takes to fulfill the promises we made.