Putin Interviewed by Chinese Media

Putin will attend BRI Summit in China this Tuesday-Wednesday

Prior to the upcoming Belt and Road Forum (BRF) for International Cooperation to be held in Beijing from Tuesday to Wednesday, its theme this year being, "High-quality Belt and Road Cooperation: Together for Common Development and Prosperity," President Putin was interviewed by China Media Corporation’s Wang Guan, whose style is one rarely seen anymore. This year’s BRF marks ten years since it was proposed and is more like a Summit with many national leaders attending. Global Times has published a series of articles of which “BRI provides clear path for world in turbulence to restore ‘peace, development’” is one. The interview covers a wide swath of issues but isn’t too terribly long:

:(as translated)Wang Guan Dear Mr. President,

First of all, let me congratulate you on your last birthday. How did you mark it?

Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much. In the circle of friends and relatives. It's all good.

Wang Guan: I want to say that you are in great shape. Do you still have time to train?

Vladimir Putin: Yes, thank God. I believe that this should be done in order to be able to work intensively in the first place. Training is not an end in itself. It is a means to achieve important, truly important goals, it is an opportunity to work intensively, in a mode that allows you to achieve the desired results.

WANG Guan: We looked at some materials and saw that in 2015 and 2017 you were still training and learning how to play hockey, and you were doing quite well, you scored a lot of goals.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, I only started skating ten years ago. Before that, not only did I not know how to skate, I didn't know how to stand on them. But I tried it ten years ago, started it, and I still play it. Why earlier? I'm still playing. Now I am doing this with pleasure. Team sports are always interesting, emotional, exciting, and provide an opportunity to truly relax from current affairs.

WANG Guan: So, it turns out that you were learning to skate and play hockey at the same time?

Vladimir Putin: Yes, of course. It was the same for me. I hope that our cooperation with our Chinese friends in the field of sports will also be actively developed. Wushu is very popular here. I hope that the popularity of wushu will continue to grow, and we would like to introduce our Chinese friends to our national sports in the field of martial arts,such as sambo. When I go there, I will also talk to the Chairman about this topic, I will invite him from both sides and ask him to support these initiatives of young people and athletes to expand contacts in the field of sports.

Wang Guan: Let's start our interview then.

Vladimir Putin: Please.

Wang Guan: Dear Mr. President,

First of all, let me thank you for agreeing to our interview for the Chinese Media Corporation. I know that this is the first time you have given an interview to a Chinese TV channel in the last two years.

This year, in March, the Russian-Chinese joint statement was adopted, which noted that relations between the two countries are at the highest level in history.

In fact, at the recently concluded Valdai Forum, you noted that Russian-Chinese cooperation is an important stabilizing factor in world affairs. Could you explain in more detail your assessment of Russian-Chinese relations, as well as the prospects for their development?

Vladimir Putin: Relations between Russia and China ‒ You know, now I'm telling you what comes to my mind right now after you formulated the question-they were not formed under the current situation of world affairs, this is not the result of the current political situation in the world-Russian-Chinese relations. They were formed over two decades neatly, calmly. And at every step, both the Russian and Chinese sides proceeded primarily from their national interests, as each of the parties understands this. When seeking the next step from both sides, we always listened to the opinion and interests of the other side. We always tried to find a compromise on any issue, even if it was some complex issues that we inherited from earlier times.

It was always based on good will. This is how we solved the issues of border demarcation, which until now, until that moment, had not been solved for 40 years. But this desire to remove everything that could prevent us from moving forward together in one way or another was so great on both sides that we found all the compromises acceptable to each other. And then we began to develop relations in the economic sphere, and also gradually, filling those niches that once belonged to someone else, to other countries, in our relations, but were not as effective as our mutual cooperation in one direction or another. For example, in the field of energy, which occupies a special place in our relations. Russia now ranks first among Chinese partners in terms of energy supplies to China, for example, in terms of value ‒ first place.

Gradually, China became the first trading partner of Russia in terms of trade turnover, and Russia gradually rose to the sixth place among Chinese trade and economic partners.

What would I note? We have had a different ratio of exports and imports at different times. For our part, we have tried to provide what the Chinese economy needs, and our Chinese friends have always listened to us about certain imbalances, primarily in the area of trade in manufactured goods. We have gradually, step by step, increased and improved this trade balance from year to year. This is how we move in almost every direction.

I'm not even talking about the role that Russian-Chinese relations play in global stability. Russian-Chinese relations are a fundamental factor.

All this together gives us reason to believe that we were moving in the absolutely right direction and in the interests of both the Chinese and Russian peoples.

Wang Guan: Mr. President,

You have just mentioned trade and economic cooperation between Russia and China. Earlier, a goal was put forward to ensure the target level of trade turnover of $ 200 billion by 2024. In fact, in 2022, the two sides in principle approached this target level, and we could feel many changes for ourselves.

This time I came to Moscow and saw that more and more Chinese brands are appearing on the streets, in stores, including on online shopping sites. At the same time, Russian gas enters the homes of Chinese users, and in Chinese stores, for example, you can see more and more products made from Russian meat, as well as dairy products.

How do you assess the prospects of trade and economic relations between the two countries?

Vladimir Putin: Our economic relations are diversifying from year to year.

Indeed, I have already said that in the field of, say, energy, we have a large volume of cooperation, and it is very diverse. This is not just the supply of, say, oil and gas. A pipeline is operating in the oil field, and it is operating steadily, and the volume of pumping is increasing.

The same applies to the Power of Siberia gas pipeline. Now we have good prospects, an agreement has already been signed on the Far Eastern route, and another route is being worked out ‒ the Power of Siberia ‒ 2, via Mongolia.

The amount of coal and electricity supplied is increasing, and we continue to build nuclear power plants. We are not only building blocks at two stations, but also working on the issue of a fast neutron reactor, which will allow us to build relations in this high-tech energy sector in a completely new way, since conditions are created for a closed cycle, in fact, there will be practically no waste there.

But we have a very good prospect in other industries. This includes automobile construction, shipbuilding, aircraft construction, and electronics. So I said about auto construction. Look, just yesterday I spoke with some people who can be called motorists with a huge, long experience. And quite sincerely, not knowing that we will have an interview with you today, my interlocutors told me: you know, Chinese cars in our market are not just settling down, because there are fewer others, and not only for this reason, the quality is improving. The quality of Chinese cars is improving, so our consumers, especially in the price / quality ratio, are happy to focus on the products of Chinese manufacturers.

You mentioned agriculture. Yes, it is also expanding here. There are certain issues related to the supply of meat products and so on, but the work continues. We know that Chinese consumers are interested not only in agricultural products, but also in supplying some of the products that the People's Republic of China itself needs to produce these agricultural products on its own territory.

We have a significant number of industries that we work on together, and it is constantly expanding, especially in recent years, due to high-tech areas of cooperation.

Wang Guan: We are confident that we will be able to reach the $ 200 billion target this year, don't you think?

Vladimir Putin: I don't doubt it ‒ let's be careful ‒ almost certainly. In the previous period, our trade turnover grew by 32 percent ‒ this is very good growth. There is every reason to believe that at the end of the year we will reach the target of 200 billion rubles.

Wang Guan: Dear Mr. President, regarding the Belt and Road Initiative. Now I would like to discuss the energy sector. We cooperate in such areas as renewable energy, combating climate change, as well as on the UN climate agenda.

What impact do you think our cooperation in these areas has on the whole world and humanity?

Vladimir Putin: You know, if we talk about the UN Sustainable Development Goals, there are more than one, two or three of them, in my opinion, there are 17 of them. The fight for the environment, the fight against climate change are very important areas, but not the only ones.

We should not forget about such a goal as the fight against poverty, for example. As you can say to people in African countries: you will not get oil, oil products, you will have to focus exclusively on renewable energy sources ‒ on the strength of the wind, say, the sun, and so on. They are largely inaccessible to emerging economies. And what, people suffer from hunger, or what? Everything must be balanced, all decisions must be balanced.

In this regard, if we talk about the initiative of President Xi Jinping "One Belt, One Road" ‒ he, in my opinion, formulated the idea in itself ten years ago - then it seems to me that it was very timely and well developed, because at the heart of this idea is an attempt to combine the capabilities of many countries for economic development. achieving common development goals.

Today, in one way or another, President Xi Jinping's ideas are being implemented. 147 countries, two-thirds of the world's population. Therefore, in my opinion, this is already a success, it is a good, correct and technologically built initiative that is developing.

Yes, we see that some perceive it as an attempt by the People's Republic of China to crush someone, but we don't see this, we just see a desire for cooperation. Our own ideas on the development of the Eurasian Economic Union, for example, on the construction of Greater Eurasia, they completely coincide with the Chinese ideas in the framework of the proposed "One Belt, One Road" cooperation.

Look, our countries of the Eurasian Economic Community and the Eurasian Economic Union have received $ 24 billion in investment as a result of joint work. What's wrong with that? At the same time, each country itself, within the framework of bilateral or multilateral formats, chooses what is profitable for it, what is unprofitable, and no one imposes anything. But it also encourages and creates conditions for development.

The same can be said about the development of logistics and infrastructure facilities. We have recently built two bridges across the Amur River with China. In my opinion, this is also good for people ‒ the number of people who communicate with each other is increasing, this is good for business and for the development of the economy, as it allows us to increase trade turnover.

Therefore, we welcome this initiative of President Xi Jinping, we are working together, we are ready and will continue to work.

Wang Guan: Mr. President, you also mentioned that the integration of the EAEU and the Belt and Road Initiative is a very important project, the so-called integration of integrations. This time you will participate in the Belt and Road Summit. What are your expectations from this?

Vladimir Putin: I think we'll find… I have already said that the countries of the Eurasian Economic Community, the Eurasian Economic Union, and the Belt and Road initiative have already provided $ 24 billion in investment. But this volume is growing, because the number of mutually beneficial projects is increasing. They are beneficial not only for countries that receive some loans under this initiative. They are also beneficial for the People's Republic of China, because China also receives products from the implementation of these projects, gets conditions for better and greater development. All this is done on the basis of mutual benefit.

We have joint projects. It may be too early to talk about this, but I am sure that contracts will be signed, new contacts will be established between participants in economic activities, heads of governments and heads of various ministries and departments that work directly will meet. I'm not even going to list it all right now. I got acquainted with the proposals of the Russian Government in various areas. All our proposals are presented in a compact font on several sheets in a row, and each project can represent something that we will work on for more than one year, or maybe a decade in the future. Therefore, I have the best expectations, including from contacts with my colleagues.

WANG Guan: We have also seen that the international community has different views on the Belt and Road initiative. What do you think are the advantages of the "One Belt, One Road" concept, which in 10 years has gone from a certain initiative to a realistic, implemented project, brings benefits to the whole of humanity?

Vladimir Putin: You know, I think that the main advantage of the concept of cooperation proposed by the Chinese side is that no one imposes anything on anyone within the framework of this work. All this is part of the search not only for acceptable solutions, but also for projects and ways to achieve a common goal that are acceptable to all. For today's China, under the leadership of President Xi Jinping, this is, so to speak, a feature in building relations with others: no one imposes anything on anyone or forces anyone, only an opportunity is provided. And if any difficulties arise, compromises are sought and always found, as I have already said. This, in my opinion, is what distinguishes the "One Belt, One Road" project proposed by the Chinese President from many others that countries with a heavy colonial legacy are trying to implement in the world.

Wang Guan: Our bilateral relations also have a lot of interests and common projects, including in the humanitarian sphere and in the sports sphere. For example, according to the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation, the number of Russian school students who participated in the unified state exam in Chinese has doubled. Recently, Russian literature and music have certainly influenced several generations of Chinese people.

We also watched with bated breath the young Russian figure skaters-Trusova, Valieva, Shcherbakova. They have a large fan community on the Chinese internet, and Chinese internet users even refer to them as fairies who fight literally with each other.

Do you think that humanitarian and sports cooperation is of great value for our friendship?

Vladimir Putin: Of course. Sports cooperation as part of humanitarian cooperation is very important, because it establishes contacts between people directly. The fact that sports fans of our athletes are appearing in China is not surprising, because they are bright stars. We also follow the success of Chinese athletes with great respect, and always look at how the work is organized.

Wang Guan: Maybe there are some individual athletes or areas that you particularly follow?

Vladimir Putin: Of course, we know about Chinese athletes. We know, for example, about gymnasts, about other areas. It is important that China has built up a good professional level of work in the field of high-performance sports.

It is equally important, of course, to establish contacts at a more modest level, at the level of physical culture, at the level of regions, at the level of competitions, for example, between higher educational institutions, between provinces and constituent entities of the Russian Federation.

I think we should also look in this direction. In my opinion, it would be very interesting. As a matter of fact, as far as I know, this is done in the framework of interregional cooperation. Colleagues also pay the necessary attention to this. I am sure that this will be the case, and I am sure that this will continue to develop.

It's important to know what? That our sports cooperation is devoid of any political or economic conjuncture.

Unfortunately, today's international sports are increasingly immersed in commerce. We don't have anything like this in our sporting relations, and I hope it will never happen again.

Wang Guan: Dear Mr. President, you once said that if you didn't practice judo, your life might have taken a completely different path. Why do you say that?

Vladimir Putin: As everyone knows, it's no secret: I come from a simple working-class family, and I used to have a lot of time to spend outside. I don't know how my life would have turned out if I hadn't taken up sports, in fact, it's not even very important what kind of sport, it's important what kind of sport, and I paid a lot of attention to it. Immediately there were priorities to assert themselves not in the yard, not in some, say, not very disciplined youth environment, but to assert themselves on sports grounds, in this case on the tatami mat. Immediately there were certain views on relationships with other people, on how to build these relationships, how to treat partners with respect, how not to allow anything that could somehow undermine relations between people, and so on. Sport educates, and this is very important.

Therefore, the development of our interaction in this sense is extremely important, and in the modern world, where there are so many threats that come from the Internet, from the illegal distribution of drugs, and so on, young people's sports are extremely important in forming character and absolutely correct, sustainable life attitudes.

Wang Guan: Mr. President, recently at the Valdai Forum you mentioned fair multipolarity, that there is a need for it, and also mentioned such a phenomenon as hegemonism in the sphere of morals and morals, in the system of values. You also said that "rule-based order" is a manifestation of colonial thinking. Why do you think so? What needs to be done to democratize international relations and promote and build a multipolar world order?

Vladimir Putin: You just said "rule-based order". Have you ever seen these rules? No, because no one has ever written them and no one has ever coordinated them with anyone. How can we talk about an order based on rules that no one has seen? From the point of view of common sense, this is nonsense, this is some kind of nonsense. But this is beneficial for those who promote this approach. Because if no one has seen these rules, it means that those who talk about it themselves come up with these rules on a case-by-case basis in a way that is beneficial to them. This is the colonial approach.

Because the colonial countries always thought they were first-class people. After all, they have always said that they bring enlightenment to their colonies, that they are civilized people and bring the benefits of civilization to other peoples who are considered second-class peoples. It is not surprising that today's political elite, say, in the United States, speaks of its exclusivity. This is the continuation of this colonial thinking. That is, when they say they are exceptional in the United States, it means that they are second, other people, all people of some other, second class. And how else to perceive it? These are the rudiments of colonial thinking, nothing else.

Our approach is quite different. We assume that all people are equal, all have the same rights, and the rights and freedoms of one country and one people end where the rights and freedoms of another person or the whole state appear. This is how a multipolar world should gradually be born. This is exactly what we are striving for, and this is the basis of our interaction with China in the international arena.

Wang Guan: Most recently, the BRICS mechanism expanded from five to 11 states. In your opinion, what historical process is the BRICS expansion a manifestation of? In addition, Russia will assume the chairmanship of this mechanism in 2024. What role do you think Russia will play in the future in BRICS and during its presidency?

Vladimir Putin: First, I want to say that the expansion itself was not easy. It was not an easy, I would even say difficult dialogue. But it was largely thanks to the efforts of our Chairman, the President of the Republic of South Africa, Mr. Ramaphosa, and I would like to emphasize his role once again, that we managed to find this consensus and reach an agreement.

What is the basis of this expansion process? This process is based on objective reality. A multipolar world is created by itself, in fact. We can speed up this process, we can, or someone can try to slow it down and, perhaps, achieve some reduction in the pace of building a multipolar world. But its creation is inevitable. It is happening on its own, and it is happening in connection with the growing potential of many countries, including, not least, the growing potential of the People's Republic of China. India is growing in Asia, Indonesia is growing in many other countries, Brazil is growing in Latin America, and Russia is getting back on its feet and getting stronger. All our countries have their own problems, but where are they not? There is always one. It's not about that, it's about the growth of potential, and this growth is obvious, including in the economic sphere.

As for BRICS, at the time of the Johannesburg Summit, the ratio of the economies of the G7 and BRICS countries was already in favor of BRICS in terms of purchasing power parity.

With the addition of six more members to the BRICS, the ratio has increased even more towards the BRICS countries. I'll say it again: this is a manifestation of the objective process of forming a multipolar world.

This means that all those who have joined BRICS support the idea and concept of forming a multipolar world. No one wants to be on the sidelines of some sovereign, everyone wants equal relations. And they see, if they join BRICS, that if we expand and strengthen such a format, such relations between our countries, we can achieve this goal by combining our efforts.

Wang Guan: Mr. President, you are very familiar with history, and you even create this history yourself.

You know, there is an opinion that some models of development of interstate relations, for example, realism, they did not contribute at all to solving the problems that humanity faces in terms of development.

And now, at such a historic crossroads, do you think that Comrade Xi Jinping's ideas about building a community of common destiny for humanity, as well as his initiatives in the field of global development, global security, and global civilizational initiatives, what do they mean and what values do they represent, in your opinion?

Vladimir Putin: You know, thank you for remembering that. Why? Because, as far as I understand, these ideas were first formulated in a general form, in my opinion, in 2013 during President Xi Jinping's visit to Moscow, and he spoke at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations and spoke about it for the first time there.

Of course, this is a global approach to human history. Of course, everything is interconnected. And today, when a multipolar world is being formed, these ideas have become even more relevant. He spoke about this in 2013, and today they are really being implemented. This is extremely important.

Once again, I want to go back to where I started right now: All of us, and President Xi Jinping in particular, are not guided by the current conjuncture considerations, but we try to assess the situation in a comprehensive way and look to the future.

Look, in 2013, he spoke here about the formation of global peace and the relationship between the destinies of all countries and peoples on the planet, and then launched the "One Belt, One Road" initiative. This is a practical implementation of what he said more or less in theoretical terms.

It seems to me that consistency and moving towards common goals while understanding the essence of what is happening-this is what distinguishes both President Xi Jinping and the PRC's policy.

Wang Guan: Dear Mr. President, you have already met with Xi Jinping 40 times. What kind of person and leader do you think Mr. Xi Jinping is? Any stories that you might like to share with us that connect you?

Vladimir Putin: You know, President Xi Jinping calls me his friend, and I call him my friend. Our people say: Tell me who your friend is, and I'll tell you who you are-there's a saying. Therefore, if I praise President Xi Jinping now, it will be somewhat uncomfortable for me-it's like I'm praising myself. So I'll try to be objective. This is, of course, one of the recognized world leaders.

It is good that you remembered, in fact, his speech at MGIMO in 2013, and I also linked it, you see, with the idea of "One Belt, One Road". So, you understand, this is still a leader who ‒ I will repeat it for the third time, but this is very important-does not make a momentary decision based on any current situation, but assesses the situation, analyzes it and looks to the future. It is very important. This is what distinguishes a true world leader from the people we call temporary workers, who come "for five minutes" to show off on an international platform, and just as imperceptibly disappear.

Of course, President Xi Jinping is a completely different person. He is a solid, calm, businesslike and reliable partner, I would like to emphasize this. If we agree on something with him, we can be sure that our agreements will be fulfilled on both sides.

As for our meetings, yes, there were a lot of them ‒ it's good. Indeed, you probably counted, I don't remember how many, probably forty meetings. There was a time when-I don't remember what year, I think we were at APEC, maybe in Indonesia, because it was my birthday ‒ we were celebrating my birthday together. Then in Dushanbe, at another event, there was his birthday, we celebrated his birthday in the course of joint work.

We had a very good trip, President Xi Jinping visited Russia, and then we went to St. Petersburg, went to the Aurora cruiser together, went on a boat ride on the Neva River, and talked with him for a very long time, in detail, in an absolutely neutral, friendly atmosphere, about bilateral relations and the situation in the Russian Federation. the world. It was probably the most friendly atmosphere, where we talked a lot, talked about all the issues, all the problems, and discussed everything. It was very thorough, very calm, friendly, like a home environment like this. He came here recently, in March, as you know. I also had a very good business visit, which was very important for the future development of our relations. Therefore, I hope that this tradition will continue now that the meeting is scheduled to take place in China.

Wang Guan: Regarding the Ukrainian issue: Dear Mr. President, how do you see the prospects for a peaceful settlement of the Ukrainian crisis? When will there be peace?

You also mentioned the Chinese document on a political solution to the Ukrainian crisis. How do you rate it?

Vladimir Putin: Yes, we are grateful to our Chinese friends for thinking about how to end this crisis. Nevertheless, I would like to remind you that the military actions in Ukraine did not start with our special military operation, but much earlier ‒ in 2014, when Western countries, acting as a guarantor of the agreements between President Yanukovych and the opposition, forgot about their guarantees just a couple of days later and, moreover, contributed to the coup d'etat. And US Administration officials directly stated that they spent a lot of money on this, in my opinion, they named five billion, and now it should be as it happened.

I won't say right now, this is a revolution, not a color revolution, not a color revolution, but it is a coup d'etat. Yes, it was also connected with the mistakes of the then current leadership, but all the same, these mistakes had to be closed not with the help of militants on the streets, but with the help of democratic procedures. But Western countries chose to act differently-to facilitate the coup. And then, in fact, at the hands of the Kiev regime, they launched military operations in the south-east of Ukraine, in the Donbass, and for eight years they fought these battles, killing women and children. No one in the West paid any attention to this or pretended not to notice.

Despite the fact that agreements were signed in the capital of Belarus, Minsk, which were called the Minsk Agreements, Russia did everything possible to follow this path and resolve the conflict. No, they weren't allowed to do that either.

Moreover, the leaders of Ukraine at the end simply stated that they did not like these Minsk agreements and were not going to implement them.

All this, coupled with the fact that the United States began to drag Ukraine itself into NATO, led to an escalation of the conflict.

Let me remind you that when Ukraine gained its independence or declared its independence, the fundamental document that formed the basis of independent Ukraine was the Declaration of Independence. The main thesis of this Declaration of Independence is that Ukraine is a neutral state.

No, in 2008, for some reason ‒ there was no crisis yet-they announced that Ukraine was expected to join NATO. What for? It's still unclear to anyone. And so, from year to year, from year to year, the situation escalated. In the end, the crisis of 2014 broke out, fighting broke out. All this has brought this escalation to a new level. So the beginning of a special military operation by Russia is not the beginning of a war, it is an attempt to stop it.

As for how and what needs to be done to bring this conflict to a peaceful end, we have never objected to it. Moreover, we even agreed in Istanbul at the time that we are ready to do this while ensuring, I want to emphasize this, Russia's legitimate interests in the security sphere, and there the Ukrainian side drew up a very strict framework for ensuring security, and we practically agreed with this. But as soon as our troops withdrew from the capital of Ukraine, from Kiev, the Ukrainian side immediately threw all these agreements into the oven. They were even initialed on paper by the heads of the negotiating parties, not this package itself, but a memorandum on these agreements. They announced that they would seek Russia's defeat and victory on the battlefield, Russia's strategic defeat. Active military operations began, the so-called counteroffensive. Since June 4, it continues. While there are no results, there are only huge losses. The losses are simply huge ‒ one to eight approximately, if in the ratio.

We know, of course, the suggestions of our Chinese friends. We highly appreciate these suggestions. I believe that they are quite realistic, in any case, they could be used as a basis for peace agreements. But, unfortunately, the opposite side does not want to conduct any negotiations. Moreover, the President of Ukraine issued a decree prohibiting anyone and himself from conducting peace talks with us. How can you negotiate if they don't want to and have issued a regulatory document that prohibits such negotiations?

Therefore, if the Ukrainian side wants this, it is probably necessary to start by canceling this decree and declaring readiness for these negotiations. We are ready, including using the suggestions of our Chinese friends.

Wang Guan: Mr. President, China has always expressed its interest in building joint, shared and indivisible security. Is there any possibility to bring our positions closer together on the Ukrainian issue?

Vladimir Putin: Yes, we've always talked about this, too. We said that it is impossible to build the security of some states on the basis of undermining the security of others, security for all should be the same.

In this regard, the non-aligned nature of Ukraine is extremely important for us. We were told back in 1991 ‒ by the US Administration at that time-that there would be no eastward expansion of NATO. After that, there were five waves of expansion, and each time we expressed our concerns. Every time we were told: yes, we promised you not to expand NATO to the east, but these were verbal promises, and where is the piece of paper with our signature? No paper? Everyone, goodbye.

You see, it is very difficult to have a dialogue with such people. I have already cited this example ‒ the Iranian nuclear program. We have been negotiating for a long time about the Iranian nuclear program. We agreed, reached a compromise, signed documents ‒ another Administration [the United States] came and threw everything in the trash, as if there were no such agreements. But how to negotiate if each Administration will change something from scratch, from the center of the field to start everything?

This applies to any issue, concerns any topic, including the one that we are discussing. Therefore, one of the key points is to ensure equal security for all, and Russia has the right to do so, just like any other state. If we believe that the expansion of NATO at the expense of Ukraine poses a threat to us, we ask that this be heard.

Wang Guan: Thank you very much for the interview, thank you.

Vladimir Putin: I did it with pleasure for the Chinese audience, listeners. I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart and convey my best wishes to the citizens of our friendly China, the People's Republic of China.

Thank you.

Lavrov is also in Beijing and met with Wang Yi today. Discussion over the Palestine Crisis occurred. Lavrov also had another phone discussion with Foreign Minister of Egypt Sameh Shoukry. Special Presidential Representative for the Middle East and Africa and Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov met with Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of the State of Qatar Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani while in Doha specifically about Palestine. After the BRF, Lavrov will go to North Korea for an official visit. Meanwhile in Moscow the Russia and ASEAN in the Asia-Pacific Conference is happening with Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Rudenko taking Lavrov’s place where he delivered a series of remarks that will be bundled in further reporting.

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