Putin Talks With Young Scientists Again

Vladimir Putin met with participants of III Congress of Young Scientists

Here’s a picture with all participants.

This event took place on 29 November and was preceded by Putin’s inspection of the exhibits of the Nasha Laba project, which the Kremlin describes thusly:

"Nasha Laba" is constantly replenished, publicly available database of products produced in Russia and Belarus scientific equipment, consumables and reagents. Online Catalog includes about 19,000 items from more than 500 Companies. The project aims to assist scientists and engineers in search of the necessary equipment for work, as well as support manufacturers in the promotion of their products as both in the domestic and foreign markets.

Other events postponed the posting of this meeting, which is a continuation of those held previously, with space scientists and nuclear scientists being the most recent. As noted with the previous meetings, much can be learned about Russia’s economic and social conditions as well as the projects suggested. Now the meeting:

Vladimir Putin: I am very glad to see you, good afternoon.

My colleague Elizaveta Nikitichna [Mochalova] has already started to talk about how this program is organized – "Our Lab". I am very pleased that our agreements at sessions of this kind are taken into account and implemented, reaching real implementation. How many, 19 thousand samples already, right? This is very important, because our so – called – or so we called them-partners believed that they had hooked us on such a technological needle and we would never get off it. And thanks to the efforts of people like you and your colleagues, it turned out that this is possible, and not just possible, but it happens quite quickly.

Elizabeth not only mentioned some examples of this work, but also said the key phrase: I think we did it deliberately, if not, then we got what we needed, namely, you said that our researchers used to buy some devices abroad, but now they have to. It is important. Why? Because there is a market for products from our manufacturers of these devices. And if the market appeared, then there was an economic incentive to produce. When it was possible to buy everything abroad, there was no domestic market.

But one thing is important here. It is very simple, primitive, but generally working so far-competition. It is necessary that there should be competition for the relevant products on the domestic market. I understand that there are some unique items that may be produced in single copies, but nevertheless, when we talk about some mass production, there must be competition to ensure quality. That's the first thing.

Secondly, I would like to take this opportunity to thank your mentors, your academic supervisors, and your teachers for what is happening – and there is a lot of positive things happening in general – because your success – and they are obvious – is a significant part of their work. Our teachers and mine once allowed us to take the first steps in the activities to which we devoted ourselves. This is the second one.

Further, I would like to say that your colleagues, whom I met last year, raised the issue that it is necessary to raise scholarships for graduate students. We're doing it. Now the [presidential] scholarship will be 75 thousand rubles. Probably, this is not the biggest figure, but still you can live already. This is never superfluous. When there are no other sources, when a person has to concentrate on the task to which he has devoted himself, of course, this is important, I understand. However, there some types of any payments stop altogether – somewhere meaningless 4,500 and some other such insignificant ones. I hope no one notices.

Perhaps what I would like to say at the beginning. And to stop this monologue and make our meeting more meaningful, I will be happy to listen to what you would like to tell me about your achievements. And if I formulate any problematic questions, I will also try to remember them. Moreover, I asked Andrey Fursenko to come to my rescue: if I forget anything, he is a well-known specialist administrator, he will write everything down. We will try to implement as much as possible the questions that you will put to us.

Please go ahead. Who will start?

Maria Mikhaleva: Mr President! Colleagues! I welcome you all.

Vladimir Putin: Good morning.

M. Mikhaleva: So it always turns out that I'm the first speaker. Maybe it's for the best.

Vladimir Putin: Very good.

M. Mikhaleva: My name is Maria Mikhaleva, Deputy Head of the Department of Programs and Projects of the Russian Science Foundation. I have been working for our foundation since its foundation, from the very first day.

Vladimir Putin: Is it from 2013?

M. Mikhaleva: Since November 2013, morally, and the employment contract dated January 17, 2014.

Vladimir Putin: See how.

M. Mikhaleva: In terms of my life, that's a third. Scary to think about, but still.

Ten years ago, when we started our work, we set ourselves a number of tasks, the most important of which is to create an effective mechanism for selecting and supporting the most promising scientific projects and creating high – quality conditions for researchers to work.

We succeeded. One of the main prides of the foundation is, of course, the system of scientific expertise. It is based on the work of expert councils, which consist of leading Russian scientists. What is important is that they are not appointed in any administrative way, they are selected by voting. This is very important for us.

Expert councils, accordingly, select projects and monitor the mechanism of their implementation throughout the entire implementation period. Expert councils, in turn, rely on the opinion of a body of experts, which currently consists of more than 8 thousand Russian researchers.

This mechanism allows us to support thousands and thousands of new projects on an ongoing basis every year. In 2023, we reached about 10 thousand projects financed annually.

Colleagues will not let you lie – it is easy and pleasant to tell the truth, as you know: the expertise of the Russian Science Foundation is really authoritative among the scientific community. If we talk about grants, their size allows us to fully cover all the needs of the researcher within the project, I mean financial needs. The duration of grants, depending on the grant line for some competitions, is up to seven years. Accordingly, this allows the researcher to predict their work in the long term and literally have confidence in the future.

Vladimir Putin: We did this on the recommendation of those people who once came from abroad, worked here, and received these mega-grants. They just raised the question that this ruler should be longer in time than we had at the beginning. I think we only had about three years at first.

M. Mikhaleva: But we listened to you and did as you said. We carry out all your tasks.

Vladimir Putin: And I did as your colleagues said. This is not a joke, I'm not exaggerating. We met with them in the Kremlin. Yes, Andrey Alexandrovich? How many, maybe ten people were there?

: There were nine people there.

Vladimir Putin: So it was their suggestion, even a request. They said so: in order for the researcher to be sure that the work will continue, that the funding will not end tomorrow, it is very desirable to do more time-consuming projects. We did just that.

M. Mikhaleva: This is also important for young scientists, and not only for leading ones, first of all, probably for young ones.

In general, the foundation pays considerable attention to supporting young scientists. Among the scientists we support, about 70 percent are about 56 thousand researchers under the age of 39.

I constantly communicate among young scientists, including through the Coordination Council for Youth Affairs, and I can say with confidence that for many young scientists, the Foundation's grant was a turning point in their lives – it helped them gain a foothold in science and determine their life trajectory, connect it with science.

Vladimir Putin: Masha, let's continue. I know what you're driving at. Continue.

M. Mikhaleva: It is very important. Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

I would also like to dwell on this point. You often think of Daniil Granin in the context of popularizing science. This aspect of our work is also very important for us. We pay great attention to various educational initiatives, and generally try to promote the research profession as much as possible in the public space.

Since my main direction in the foundation is education, popular science story, I can say for sure from our own experience, what to tell about the discoveries of our grantees, and they are always based on the results that published in international journals, very highly rated, Recognized... By the way, despite even the last The number of such publications is not decreasing, as we can see in our work. For 10 years, I can give you figures, it's about 250 thousand scientific publications in various disciplines. So, to talk about the discoveries of Russian scientists and to see the enthusiasm of children, Adults and even grandparents are very motivated In order to get four hours of sleep and still go to work, drink coffee and do something else.

And another point is the openness of the fund. We try to be as open as possible to the community. We communicate with scientists in various formats and try to be as flexible as possible to changes in the external environment. And even now, the congress is being held for the third time every year, and this is the third time that we are hosting the Russian Science Foundation school here. The entire management team arrives, including the general director, and communicates with scientists for several hours in an open dialogue-questions and answers: both scientists from the management and management from scientists simply cannot be dragged by the ears. But I try whenever possible.

A year ago, we started supporting research and development activities in addition to basic research, according to your instructions. The first contests were already held, and the first projects were supported. These include projects related to microelectronics, the development of catalysts for domestic polymers, and the development of sweet proteins.

There are colleagues, representatives of technology companies – customers and, accordingly, performers – scientific organizations. They will be able to tell you more about the progress of projects, what has already been done or planned.

And, probably, such a last moment, the bridge. We had a chance to talk with the guys when we were preparing for this meeting, and we identified a number of topics that are cross-cutting for all of us and, in general, relate to different areas of science. First of all, this is a question of developing micro-tonnage chemistry in the country. But here I will probably not abuse your attention, and I would still like to give my chemical colleagues the floor, they will tell you about this better than I do.

Thank you so much for the opportunity and for your attention.

Vladimir Putin: As for applied and fundamental research. When Lisa spoke today about what has been done in terms of capabilities for laboratory devices of all kinds, it was said several times: previously it was possible to do this, but now we are forced to do this with certain restrictions. This is reflected, among other things, in the need to expand and deepen the fundamental ... Yes, they do not bring immediate results, but, for example, on the same topic of microelectronics, it is clear that without some fundamental developments, we cannot solve the problem of applied sound – we need to create certain boards or whatever.

You see, we need to do something of our own to ensure that what is needed in practice in the applied sense works effectively. Therefore, of course, we will definitely continue, and through the foundation we will continue to work related to basic research. This is obvious.

Please, colleagues.

Vladimir Vil: Mr President, hello!

Vladimir Putin: Good afternoon.

V. Vil: Vera A. Vil, Senior Researcher at the Zelinsky Institute of Organic Chemistry of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Our laboratory is fundamentally engaged in the chemistry of radical processes, electro-and photochemistry, and in applied terms-we develop polymerization initiators and plant protection products based on organic peroxides and thiocyanates.

We can say that in our laboratory, research has grown and developed together with me, from the first fundamental projects of the Russian Science Foundation, even as a performer…

Vladimir Putin: If they look the same as you, then progress has been made.

V. Wil: ... from the time of graduate school to large-scale applied projects, now as a manager, which, I hope, will result in the construction of a plant for the production of domestic polymerization initiators.

The creation of the Russian Science Foundation in 2013, however, significantly changed the mood in scientific circles. Before that, as a rule, young people left the laboratories after the candidate's defense in order to feed their families and lead some decent existence.

From my own experience, I can say that the news of receiving a grant is a great joy. There is confidence that in the coming years we will have something to buy reagents, equipment, something to live on for my guys, in general, there is confidence in the future, you can plan for your future.

I would also like to note that the high bar of scientific results held by the Russian Science Foundation motivates us to work at a high scientific level without looking back and making excuses, even in the current situation. Recently, much attention has been paid to the development of electronics, agriculture, and the creation of synthetic materials.

In our opinion, the main and common pain point of all these and other industries is the lack of domestic components, materials, and parts. If you look deeper, the root cause of such a vulnerable situation is the lack of domestic production of a wide range of basic chemical compounds, the so-called small and micro-tonnage chemistry. Without it, we put ourselves in a completely dependent position on importing all components, as it was before.

The Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Ministry of Education and Science, and the Russian Science Foundation are also very optimistic about state programs to support low-tonnage chemistry.

We understand that there are always more necessary and useful initiatives than there are funds for their implementation. However, we strongly ask you to develop and maintain the existing tandem system of research support and the Russian Science Foundation as a tool for targeted support of a huge number of scientific groups throughout Russia, which often determine the fate of people, and to encourage applied projects in low-tonnage chemistry, since this is one of the key components of the country's scientific and technological sovereignty.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: What are the products of low – tonnage chemistry and small-scale chemistry? Name it.

V. Wil: To be honest, this is a huge range of products. This is also its problem, that unlike large-capacity chemistry…

Vladimir Putin: Name some of them.

Vladimir Wiel: For example, we are engaged in initiators of radical polymerization – last year Russia exported one of them in the amount of 400 tons. But this is a very important component, which is also used to make a cross-linked polymer for insulation of power cables. Without it, it is simply impossible to make this cable, and it only needs 400 tons. And this is just one of many examples.

Vladimir Putin: This is the main problem, as far as I understand, because in order to produce, and the market is small, the cost of the product is high.

V. Wil: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Therefore, there are leading countries that produce, capture the world market and sell them on world markets. Accordingly, the more they produce, the less the final product costs.

This is extremely important for us. Where possible, we will cooperate with bona fide partners, and where necessary, we will definitely act independently and develop.

You probably know that we have certain figures included even in the budget for the development of low-tonnage chemistry. All this will be implemented because it makes economic sense and is of great interest from the point of view of ensuring both security and technological sovereignty. All this will be executed. We have everything in our programs, we have not sequestered anything, the amount of pledged funds has not gone anywhere. So we'll keep working.

V. Wil: We are very happy. Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: This is, one might even say, one of the Government's priorities, because in a number of areas it is simply impossible to do without small chemical products. And you gave us an example of this.

V. Wil: Thank you.

Olga Kamanina: Good afternoon, Vladimir Vladimirovich!

Kamanina Olga. I am a leading researcher at the youth laboratory of Tula State University.

In 2022, at the initiative of the rector of Tula State University, Oleg Kravchenko, we created the Biochemtech research center, which included youth laboratories previously created within the framework of the national project "Science and Universities".

On February 8, 2022, our laboratory of biologically active compounds and biocomposites was opened personally by the Governor of the Tula Region Alexey G. Dyumin.

Vladimir Putin: This is a big event.

Olga Kamanina: Yes, it was a big event for us.

Vladimir Putin: By the way, jokes are jokes, and when regional leaders get involved in this kind of work, many things really move much faster than in the usual mode. We will continue to encourage regional leaders to work directly with those institutions that are engaged in science and education in the broadest sense of the word.

I won't give you any examples right now, but in general, we already have a very large number of regions that are very active in these areas.

Olga Kamanina: One of the areas of our laboratory is the development of new composite materials based on silicon and microbial cells. Such composite materials can be good carriers of either catalysts or biocidal properties, biocidal substances. Now the Biochemtech center is a platform where young scientists from youth laboratories and business leaders who are interested in cooperation meet. Even now, the Tula Pharmaceutical Factory is interested in cooperation with youth laboratories for the synthesis of the necessary components of medicines in the framework of import substitution and elimination of dependence on foreign analogues.

I have been working in the youth laboratory for the third year and I see that it is quite difficult for young scientists, especially women, to combine active scientific work and self-realization in the family sphere. Now I am preparing to defend my doctoral dissertation, I want to realize myself in the family, but without giving up science. Because after all, being a pioneer is so cool, going to your favorite job and working with equally passionate people.

Vladimir Putin: I see. And what does it mean to realize yourself in the family?

Olga Kamanina: I want to become a mother.

Vladimir Putin: You know, it's so cool. I recommend.

Olga Kamanina: Thank you.

As a matter of fact, the Russian Science Foundation has a tactic of "stopping the clock", when the registration of publications or grants is extended when submitting new applications. That is, scientists, in particular women, when they come out of maternity leave or parental leave, often meet with the fact that it took time to submit some competitions.

I propose to extend this tactic of "stopping the clock" for all competitions not only of the Russian Science Foundation, that is, the Ministry of Education and Science or the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and extend the status of a young scientist, a young candidate of sciences and a young doctor of sciences for the duration of a young scientist's stay on maternity leave or on parental leave.

Vladimir Putin: A good suggestion, very correct and feasible. This is very good, a good idea. I will definitely talk to my colleagues – both in the Government and Andrey Aleksandrovich [Fursenko], please also pay attention to this.

First, the woman will not drop out of the profession and she will always have a perspective, she will understand that the opportunity to continue research that is available today will not go away, and the topic that the person is engaged in will not be forgotten. I fully agree, and you should definitely support me.

Olga Kamanina: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you for the idea. This does not even occur to those who do not want and are not going to be a mother anymore. Do you understand?

G. Yakovlev: Hello, Mr President!

My name is Georgy Yakovlev. I am a senior design engineer of the company "Svetlana-Rost", St. Petersburg.

Our company produces microwave components based on semiconductor wafers, and we are currently the only company in Russia that has mastered and implemented a new type of production – contract crystal production. This type of production involves creating a library of elements (resistors, transistors, etc.) and standardizing technologies to such a level that the customer can take these elements and assemble the necessary circuits as a designer, thereby forming a topology.

This approach allows us to significantly reduce the cost and time of production in this case of small series of microwave components with a wide range of products, which is very important for our consumers, since our products are also special-purpose.

Vladimir Putin: How can I help you?

G. Yakovlev: We'll get to that now. We have been cooperating with the Russian Science Foundation for quite a long time and see how they are dynamically being rebuilt in the current economic realities. In particular, their projects in the field of Microelectronics this year allowed us to close a very important niche for us, when there is a well-developed technology and testing on pilot projects is required.

We have won three grants from the Russian Science Foundation and by the end of next year we will supply consumers with import-substituted analogues based on gallium arsenide and nitride, which, unfortunately, have no alternative in Russia right now, and at the end of 2025 we will introduce two new technological processes.

Today we see that our products are really in demand among consumers, and we are ready to increase production volumes, but our weak point is equipment. Denis Valentinovich Manturov visited us in August 2022, and he helped us acquire some unused industrial equipment. Today it is already integrated into the technical process.

However, we see that in the academic environment, in higher education institutions, there are some units of unused industrial equipment. And some universities are even ready to transfer this equipment, but there are no mechanisms. It would be great to develop such mechanisms for transferring unused equipment to those who are willing to use it actively and effectively. It may be necessary to work out additional mechanisms for state subsidies for the purchase of former consumer equipment, because I believe that this is also an important point.

Among the current instruments, we have the Russian Science Foundation and Government Decree No. 1867. These are good tools, but according to No. 1867, we have a need to increase the budget and reduce deadlines, since the time factor is crucial in this case.

As far as our organization is concerned, we put all our own profits back into production, technology, materials, and people, but this only partially closes the issue of equipment.

In conclusion, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to address the congress and ask you, Mr President, to take into account the needs and proposals of our organization as much as possible, since ultimately we are all working for a common cause.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Mr Putin, I have two suggestions.

First. You can tell us exactly from whom and what you want to take away.

G. Yakovlev: We know that much.

Vladimir Putin: I'm just kidding. I don't doubt it, but I don't know-you write to me, please give me this information. First.

G. Yakovlev: All right.

Vladimir Putin: Second, please state how you see the idea itself. You said at the beginning that you need to appeal the transfer mechanism from those who do not use it to those who need it, but this is their property. In the end, you got better: grants for acquisition, something else. I mean, just get the idea straight, okay?

G. Yakovlev: All right.

Vladimir Putin: Give it to us, please. Andrey Alexandrovich, please take it from Georgy, okay?

The idea is absolutely correct, I support it 100 percent. We just need to work out a mechanism. Really: you need something, but someone else has it, is not used – of course, you need to do it. We just need to find a way to do it in a civilized way, according to market principles. Agreed? And specifically: what you need, who has it, we will agree.

G. Yakovlev: We will send it through Andrey Alexandrovich.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, just formulate it and give it to Andrey Alexandrovich, he will transfer it to me. Okay?

G. Yakovlev: Thank you very much, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you.

Alexey Garkul: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,

My name is Garkul Arina. I am an employee of the Department of Technologies and Catalytic Processes of the Institute of Catalysis of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

My post-graduate work is related to the research of highly efficient propylene polymerization catalysts developed in our laboratory. This polymer is extremely popular in our country.

Despite more than 20 years of experience of our laboratory in this field, unfortunately, we did not find a response in domestic companies due to imported catalysts. However, sanctions and the emergence of government programs to introduce new information products have changed the situation.

In particular, I would like to mention the new competition of the Russian Science Foundation, which is aimed not only at scientific, but also at development activities in the interests of domestic companies.

At the moment, our institute participates in two pilot projects of the Russian Science Foundation aimed at developing catalysts for the polymerization of ethylene and propylene, in one of which I was lucky enough to be among the participants.

We see possible projects as an opportunity to apply our scientific ideas and developments to domestic companies, in particular to the enterprises of our partner, which is the petrochemical company SIBUR.

Currently, within the framework of our grant, the catalysts for propylene polymerization are being refined at the laboratory level to the required specific parameters.

However, further scaling of the catalyst to three kilograms will allow not only to conduct a pilot test, but also to work out the branded product range. Unfortunately, it is currently difficult to do this at the Institute's laboratory sites. This problem could be solved by creating a specific pilot infrastructure. A similar scaling problem exists in the production of other domestic catalysts.

It should also be noted that catalysts have a large multiplicative effect, because more than 15 percent of the material part of the Russian Federation's GDP is made up of chemical products produced using catalysts.

Vladimir Putin: That's right.

A. Garkul: To solve the problems of scaling developments, our institute, together with the Institute of Cytology and Genetics of Novosibirsk, prepared an application for the Biocattech infrastructure project, which includes the construction of specialized buildings in which catalysts developed not only by our institute, but also by other scientific organizations of our country can be tested and scaled. It is also planned to create pilot plants to study the catalytic properties of the catalysts developed by us, which will also allow for independent expertise of the catalysts purchased by our companies from friendly countries.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, I would like to draw attention to our problem, to this problem, because the creation of pilot production facilities in those organizations that are aimed at implementing their scientific ideas in the enterprise would allow us to link science and business even more closely, as well as reduce business risks when implementing scientific projects in industry. It seems to me that without the help of the state, unfortunately, nothing will work out.

I would like to know your opinion on this issue, and I would also like to say that this project could be the beginning of the creation of an implementation belt around the SKIF mega – installation of the 4+ generation synchrotron radiation source, which is currently being implemented on your behalf in Koltsovo, Novosibirsk region.

Thank you so much for your attention. That's all I wanted to say.

Vladimir Putin: Like a machine gun.

Alexander Garkul: I'm sorry.

Vladimir Putin: I listened with interest.

Arina Sergeevna, first of all, you have a very good partner – SIBUR. This is a high-tech company. They are developing very quickly and interestingly. First.

Second. The subject you mentioned is the catalysts that were purchased earlier, and SIBUR cannot do without them, because they are building huge enterprises.

A. Garkul: Of course.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. This means that they will not get away from it.

A. Garkul: That's right.

Vladimir Putin:In turn, this means that the state's assistance may not be very necessary here. You asked me how I feel about it. I fully share your position, but in this particular case, of course, we need to negotiate with SIBUR, understand what they need from the state, how to support them there. And so in general, by and large, everything that you do, they will not be able to function simply without it. Therefore, this is primarily the task of SIBUR itself. But if they need something from the state, from the Government, we will certainly try to do it. (To A. Fursenko) Andrey Alexandrovich, please mark it, okay? And so they act very energetically, such huge enterprises they have. The leader is absolute.

Moreover, one of the leaders of this company told me publicly about it: they are building a huge enterprise in the Amur Region, and there one of the leading German companies cooperated with them, and then left. This, he says, moved the project to the right for six months, but we did everything, and now they have two-thirds of the building in Germany, where highly qualified management worked, already in the evening is not lit. Yes, we had to lay off a significant number of employees. And we, he says, have developed the competencies that our partners had, and now we are becoming an engineering center that is accessed from almost all over the world. Because there is a primary source of raw materials, and technologies have been developed.

That's how we need to do it across the board. As much as possible, of course, but you need to strive for this. Therefore, we will talk to SIBUR if they need some kind of support from the state, so that they, in turn, support you – that's the whole point. Because, as I understand it, we need to move from laboratory research to production.

A. Garkul: Of course, yes.

Vladimir Putin: That's it. Therefore, we will try to support you-both directly and through the company itself. This is the first part of the Merleison Ballet.

And the second – "SKIF". SKIF, device 4+. I don't remember exactly, but I think it will be ready at the end of December.

A. Garkul: Some part of it, yes.

Vladimir Putin:It will be fully operational in 2025. Of course, it was created primarily to study the structure of matter and everything related to it, but of course, SKIF can also solve your problems.

A. Garkul: Of course.

Vladimir Putin: We will also try to support you.

A. Garkul: All right. Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you. Good luck to you.

R. Kovalevsky: Hello, Vladimir Vladimirovich!

Rostislav Kovalevsky. As the scientific director of the Novatoria Agrobiotechnopark in the Belgorod region, I am responsible for the development of biotechnological products, and as a member of the EFKO Board of Directors, I am responsible for import substitution and export of these products.

We have set ourselves the goal of implementing import substitution in the market of enzymes for both the food industry and agriculture.

In terms of innovative products, we have achieved results in such areas as sweet proteins.

Vladimir Putin: What kind of proteins?

R. Kovalevsky: Sweet proteins are a special type of protein that, when interacting with taste receptors, creates a feeling of very great sweetness. They are several thousand times sweeter than sugar, meaning that one gram of this protein can replace several kilograms of sugar.

Vladimir Putin: Not harmful?

R. Kovalevsky: We have almost finished the registration process, more than eight months of research are behind us, and they are absolutely harmless.

Vladimir Putin: Another month and everything will be ready.

R. Kovalevsky: To be honest, we expect to complete the registration process in a month.

Even on our own initiative, we start clinical trials in humans, in order to be completely sure.

Further. Projects for the production of vegetable proteins for food: production of oils and fats from microorganisms.

Vladimir Putin: Please excuse me, Rostislav. I understand you correctly that these sweet proteins are synthetic proteins, right?

R. Kovalevsky: No, initially these proteins were found in fruits: there are fruits in Africa that are sweet not because of sugar, but because of protein. And then we, together with scientists, learned how to make them using biotechnologies, that is, from microorganisms. That is, they are absolutely identical in their natural structure, but they are obtained in a fermenter from yeast.

Vladimir Putin: And they don't have the same effect on the body as sugar, do they?

R. Kovalevsky: No, they do not lead to an increase in blood sugar levels, because chemically it is an ordinary protein.

Vladimir Putin: That is, they are shown to diabetics?

R. Kovalevsky: Yes. This is exactly the target group. We understand that there are millions of people with diabetes in the country, and this is exactly what we were aiming for.

We have extensive practical experience in working with foreign scientists: from Germany, Switzerland, and China. But, in our opinion, it is Russian scientists who are leading both in the depth of scientific knowledge and in creativity, so we develop all breakthrough technologies exclusively with domestic scientists.

In our opinion, the country has created all the conditions to comfortably engage in innovation. I would especially like to highlight effective relations with the Russian Science Foundation. The Russian Science Foundation has created a model that allows both achieving leadership in scientific research and solving efficiency problems, but what is even more important for us is to carry out an independent examination of the usefulness and effectiveness of the products being developed. As you correctly noted, this question, how useful it is, is still independently checked by the Expert Council of the Russian Science Foundation.

In addition to the Russian Science Foundation, we work very closely with the Ministry of Agriculture and NTI. So, with the support of the Ministry of Agriculture, an agrobiotechnopark is being created in the Belgorod region, and together with NTI, an investment fund is being created to support startups.

We are convinced that all new products should be subject to the most rigorous expertise in terms of their health benefits. And we are ready to finance this expertise independently.

But what would we consider important and want to discuss? This is the feasibility of creating a specialized platform that would participate in shaping public opinion in relation to these new products.

It seems to us that this would significantly reduce the likelihood of discrediting these new products by representatives of substitute industries. These products are innovative, the attitude towards them has not yet been formed on the part of consumers, and there are high risks that with the help of such wisdom, without any scientific basis, they will somehow try to discredit them. We see this as a big risk.

In our opinion, if this risk is not addressed at the system level, the investment attractiveness of these new industries, which are associated with the development of fundamentally new products, will be significantly lower. This is a question that we would like to discuss.

Vladimir Putin: This is a very important question. I agree with that.

As for attempts to discredit competitors, this will still happen, it is inevitable. But what could be done? By the way, this can also be done within the framework of the Russian Science Foundation's activities, and it can be done within the framework of the Foundation. Why? This is also a form of support. And how? In my opinion, you will think, you will do better than I say now, but the most important thing is for the consumer to see who and what the expert council is. Your expert council's activities are transparent, they're not secret agents, are they? These are well-known scientists and specialists. It is necessary that people, ordinary people, see what kind of organ it is and what kind of specialists it is, so that it is clear that this is a quality mark. There is nothing complicated here, you just need to replicate this information and that's it. And if it needs to be promoted, Andrey Alexandrovich does it with his usual brilliance, and I will be happy to help. Okay?

R. Kovalevsky: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: This is absolutely the right idea.

Alexander Lazukin: Hello! Lazukin Alexander, "TRINITY", "Rosatom".

Guys, colleagues have already said that the Russian Science Foundation now holds competitions for experimental design and applied research. At the state corporation, we had such experience in cooperation with the Russian Foundation for Basic Research, when it was still a structure, in organizing joint scientific competitions, as well as in applied research, in the interests of our industry. The results of this work, the results of this competition are estimated as very high. Therefore, we strongly support the initiatives of the Russian Science Foundation to expand the pool of its competitions for applied research and development.

For our part, we expect to participate in these competitions both as performers for key current industry needs, and as initiators and customers of such works. The specifics of these competitions are such that they are carried out on key strategic initiatives, the list of which now consists of six items.

We would like to consider expanding this list of key initiatives to include two knowledge-intensive areas, such as new materials for energy and thermonuclear power, and controlled fusion. This would allow us to work more closely with the scientific community, which we offer through the structures of the Russian Science Foundation.

That's the question.

Vladimir Putin: In my opinion, we actively started working on controlled thermonuclear fusion in the 50s. Since 1950, Academician Lavrentiev, in my opinion, has been studying, right?

A. Lazukin: Yes. Well, the tokamak concept was proposed by Sakharov.

Vladimir Putin: Sakharov then and Tamm, right?

A. Lazukin: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: This is a very important area, extremely important. You're probably right, but I didn't create this list, but I'll turn to those who did. I will refer to Lazukin Alexander Vadimovich and ask you to support me.

A. Lazukin: All right.

Vladimir Putin: Agreed.

This is a really important thing, I totally agree.

Rosatom, however, can do everything by itself. Why do you need support? If the Government needs something, we contact Rosatom ourselves.

A. Lazukin: But the support of the Russian Science Foundation is indispensable here, as already mentioned. Expert access, popularization of knowledge - this will be an indispensable help at this stage.

Vladimir Putin: I agree. We will try to do this.

Alexander Lazukin: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you.

You are welcome.

Yu.Dyakova: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,

Let me thank you: on November 2, you signed a decree on the development of nature-like technologies. These technologies will allow us to conserve resources and preserve our nature for future generations.

It is very important that Russia is the first country in the world to take this initiative, because preserving the planet will allow us not to stop the technological process, but to transfer it to a fundamentally new level: to study the systems of wildlife, to reproduce them in the form of technical systems that will be integrated into the natural resource cycle.

And already, as a basis for the development of nature-like technologies, two federal programs are being implemented under your decrees. This is a program for the development of synchrotron and neutron research. Anna [Shapieva] spoke about SKIF, which, in fact, will become such a large-scale ruler that we can measure natural processes, natural systems at the level of individual atoms and then reproduce them.

The second program is a program for the development of genetic technologies. Significant progress has already been made here.

First of all, this is a huge progress in personnel. We recently held a forum of genetic technologies, there were almost a thousand participants, and just at the start of the program we said that we have no geneticists in Russia, and today there are a lot of geneticists among us.

You have seen the genetic equipment, the first domestic full-genome sequencer, and we are already working on it at the Kurchatov Institute, and we are very happy with it. That is, we can now not depend on the tools that we will use to see this DNA, the code of nature that it came up with.

On your instructions, the Kurchatov Institute has already created a mock-up of the national database of genetic information. This means that we will have a lot to add up this result obtained on our domestic device.

And you signed a law at the end of last year, according to which the national database of genetic information became the state information system. This means that all the genetic information that we receive will no longer flow abroad, it will remain with us, it will be available to our users, our scientists, and we will also give them access to supercomputing facilities to analyze it at the output of the sequencer.

Now, as we move forward, the following challenges arise.

The first, very important task is to preserve bioresource collections, because we are the richest country in terms of bioresource collections. Our outstanding scientists have been collecting them for more than 100 years, and we have more than 120 of them. These bioresource collections should become the main content of this database of genetic information. What we will study, their study has not so much a fundamental meaning as a practical one, because if we want to develop a new variety, a new breed of animals, we must study the resources that nature has come up with, understand how we will influence them and how we can use them. But at the moment, these bioresource collections are not protected, they are ephemeral.

On your instructions, four national bioresource centers are currently being created: the Plant Center in VIR, the Animal Center in VIZ (there are also colleagues here), and the national center for microorganisms and autochthonous grape varieties is being created on the basis of the Kurchatov Institute. But these centers do not cover all the variety of collections.

The law on bioresource centers is also being prepared on your instructions. It has already been discussed with all interested parties. But at the moment, we are a little stalled with this law and would like to ask you to give instructions to speed up the adoption of this law. Why? Because, you see, every day of downtime, this delaying of the law, taking into account the fact that collections are not protected, we see a risk for us that the collections will be lost or damaged. For example, as it happened in Sevastopol recently, when some of the animals were lost. There is a different situation, but nevertheless. Because indeed, these collections are now supported by the enthusiasm of the scientists who work on them. So speeding up the law would be very important.

And the second thing I would like to draw your attention to, as we have already said, is the development of the microbiological industry. In the Soviet Union, the best microbiological industry in the world was created on the basis of GosNIIGenetika, which is now part of the Kurchatov Institute. And today we have been pushed out of the market, we have given the market largely to foreign technologies, but these technologies are very important.

Because what are the main products of the microbiological industry, if not to talk about the innovative ones that Rostislav mentioned? These are animal feed additives, plant protection products, vitamins, and enzymes also for animals. In addition, the products of the microbiological industry are those living organisms that we buy from abroad. Here you come to the store, what we buy on the shelves are products that are made by living organisms. These are sour milk, cheeses, bread, beer, wine. And we buy these microorganisms. This is dangerous, because they can also carry potential risks.

Therefore, from the point of view of science, it would be important, as Rostislav also said, to gather scientific potential. We have it, it was created, but during the transition period it was somehow fragmented according to industry principles. It would be important to create this scientific monolith in order to quickly assemble it, combine competencies, transfer them to the young people we have brought up, and give quick results to agriculture and industry.

We propose to combine these separate institutes and research groups under our leadership, taking into account that the Kurchatov Institute is mainly focused on agriculture, genetics, and programs – we have created a genetic center specifically for industrial microbiology. And while we are reviving the microbiological industry, as Mikhail Valentinovich [Kovalchuk]has already said many times, it is very important – and we now have all the tools for this – to make genetic control of those living microorganisms that are imported, such as sourdough products for milk and cheese. So that when we import them, we can make their complete genetic passport, place this genetic passport digitally in the genetic information database, and the microorganism itself - in our collections.

Vladimir Putin: All this is very important and very interesting. Indeed, Mikhail Valentinovich constantly pays attention to this. He was also one of the initiators of the development of nature-like technologies. He told me a lot and very interestingly about it.

What do you want from me? Everything is interesting, everything is correct. What should I do?

Yu.Dyakova: To help speed up the adoption of the law on bioresource collections.

Vladimir Putin: Good.

Yu.Dyakova: Can I ask you another question about the pain? It's a little off topic.

We have just talked about the expert examination, and now, on your instructions, a decision is being prepared, a proposal to amend the legislation on expert examination. You also gave instructions on leading scientific organizations.

But now we, a part of the scientific community, are worried that these decisions on expertise will not become formal, because our scientific organizations are scientifically and technically different: there are fundamental sciences, there are applied ones, which, for example, operate on the order of Rosatom, there are organizations that create mega-installations, lay tools. They're all a little different. If they are all combed under one comb, then we are afraid that it will be difficult to deal with it later, on the one hand.

And secondly, there is a proposal for leading scientific organizations. Because it is important that these important projects are really examined not by a separate expert, but by a leading scientific organization that has competencies, experience, and knowledge.

I would like to ask your advice so that the expert examination does not become so formal, and perhaps we can synchronize these issues of making changes about the expert examination, about the main scientific organization, so that they do not argue with each other.

Vladimir Putin: It is so difficult to formulate a final decision with a voice. I would ask you then to state the same thing, to specify the proposal, what would you like? But we can't make Kurchatnik the main organization for the examination of everything.

Yu.Dyakova: No, the Academy of Sciences should also be taken into account here, of course.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, yes. We will talk to the President of the Academy of Sciences, and we will definitely discuss this with Gennady Yakovlevich [Krasnikov]. Please formulate it as you see it.

Yu.Dyakova: Yes, very well.

Vladimir Putin: And in terms of the law, of course, I completely agree with you.

First of all, I would like to thank those who have been involved in creating these collections – both bioresources and the national database of genetic information, which is a very important area. But as for these collections, there are also many experts who have been doing this for many years, so here, I agree with you, you can not lose anything, you can not let it flow somewhere: to the left, to the right, you don't know where. Therefore, we will definitely try to do this as quickly as possible.

But it is necessary, of course, because these are such fundamental laws, they must be worked out in a high-quality way. End of the year… What condition is it in?

Yu.Dyakova: The law has already been finalized. After improvements, in my opinion, today it should have been submitted to the Government for approval, for review by the Government.

Vladimir Putin: Now I have to go to the Government, and then I have to go to the State Duma, right?

Yu.Dyakova: Already yes.

Vladimir Putin: Who does this in the Government?

Yu.Dyakova: In the Government – I can't say. He's supposed to go to the Government, I do not know.

Vladimir Putin: Andrey Alexandrovich, who does this?

A. Fursenko: There is a difficult question, because when it comes to medicine, it is rather Tatyana Alekseevna [Golikova]. But in reality, bioresource collections are part of the infrastructure of all science. Therefore, I think it is very important that in addition to the medical and genetic position, purely scientific positions should also be taken into account. This is a very important part of the infrastructure of science, so that it is not lost. In my opinion, the answers to these questions have now been found. I think that both Tatiana Alekseevna and Dmitry Nikolaevich will do this. I will, with your permission, convey to them your wishes to speed up.

Vladimir Putin: No. Just tell me which department is the head office. Just tell me.

Alexey Fursenko: This is the main argument.

Vladimir Putin: Wait. But someone contributes to the Government?

A. Fursenko: The Ministry of Education and Science should contribute to the Government.

Vladimir Putin: It should. And who contributes?

A. Fursenko: They made changes. But that's why they threw it out, they said it wasn't quite right.

Vladimir Putin: Good. Just remind me, and I'll talk to my colleagues. That's all. You're right, you can't delay. You're absolutely right.

Thank God, we have a completely different attitude to genetics today, not as it was in the Soviet Union, and genetics was called the " corrupt girl of imperialism." So they said, yes. But our attitude is completely different. This is the most promising and extremely important area of research. This is true, as well as artificial intelligence, will definitely be at the heart of progress in so many areas of government, state, and human life in general. Whoever succeeds in genetics will receive fundamental and qualitative competitive advantages of generational nature, which will be crucial.

Therefore, we should not miss anything important here. We will work without fail.

Yu.Diakova: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: As far as the microbiological industry is concerned, I understand the expertise, and we will also see and work together.

Yu.Diakova: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Please.

Alexander Sermyagin: Mr President, hello!

I represent the Lev Konstantinovich Ernst Federal Research Center for Animal Husbandry. It would seem that agriculture combines fundamental and applied aspects, but, nevertheless, we are, as Yulia Alekseevna [Dyakova] said, one of those organizations on the basis of which a bioresource collection or a center for the conservation of the gene pool of farm animals and their related wild species should be created.

Our organization is such a depository, or "Noah's Ark", which gathers various types of farm animals, gene pools that have been created over the past 100-150 years in our country. It would seem that such animals should not have remained, but, nevertheless, they are in our herds.

Vladimir Putin: Again, what animals?

A. Sermyagin: Gene pools. These are local populations.

Let me explain. Our country is big. For example, in Yakutia, these are Yakut cattle that are adapted to extreme climatic conditions. In the Urals – these are the Suksun and Tagil breeds, which are able to feed, relatively speaking, on the paws of Christmas trees. For example, in the Volga region – this is red Gorbatov cattle, which has excellent technological properties, the quality of organic products and dietary nutrition for children. If we take the North, it is Kholmogorskaya breed, Yaroslavl breed-excellent production of cheese and butter. In other words, these are the breeds that were created by generations of breeders and are a national treasure, as you, in general, said.

Our center is specialized in animal husbandry, and we are not just working with samples, but working with DNA, creating catalogues and certifying breeds, and preserving them in a living form. We compare these animals by phenotypic parameters, by genetic ones, with historical components that we know, which were 50-60 years ago, using genomic technologies. Further, using reproductive technologies, such as embryo transplantation, we create cryobanks of embryos and semen, because the seed, for example, if we take breeding bulls, is only one part, and the embryos still contain a practically ready-made organism, that is, a double set of chromosomes. That is, here we solve a double problem – we keep the female component and the male component.

At this stage, we have frozen about 200 embryos. These are Tagil cattle, Yakut breed and Yaroslavl cattle. In other words, we are trying to preserve these animals not only in a live form, but also, let's say, ex situ – in a frozen state, in seed cryobanks.

Moreover, these breeds, having excellent subsidized qualities, economic use, productive longevity, of course, they are inferior to world breeds in terms of productivity. However, they have a high rate of resistance to diseases, to long-term use, and a number of reactions to stress factors.

In this regard, for example, the same Yakut cattle is an excellent object for the development of Arctic territories. There are a number of breeds in the south of our country-red steppe, gray Ukrainian cattle, which would be in demand in the new territories that we are now actively developing.

In this direction, I would like to thank you for the opportunity that a bioresource center can be implemented on our base, and ask you to support the decree and the development program of our bioresource center for the conservation of gene pool breeds of agricultural animals and their related wild species. That is, we are ready, we are working. There remains a certain legislative initiative that will allow us to move on to a new stage.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: I understand that this is closely related to what Yulia was talking about.

Yu.Dyakova: Yes, this is the decree on the national center.

Vladimir Putin: Good. It is only necessary that it is not forgotten. What exactly should be done there? Do you need additional funds there, or do you need to build something?

Alexander Sermyagin: We are waiting for your decree and the signing of the decree. As soon as you sign it, we are fully prepared …

Vladimir Putin: What is the stage of this decree?

A. Fursenko: The problem there is that there is an opinion among our lawyers that it is wrong to talk about agriculture, we should talk about all living organisms, which is impossible at all.

Vladimir Putin: That is, our demographics are so-so so far, yes, we understand that then the reproductive capacity is somewhat inferior to someone else, but the intellectual component, competitiveness in this regard is very good.

That is, our lawyers – I am also a lawyer - are specialists in all areas without exception, and they are the best specialists, the most profound. Since I am also a lawyer, I will try to work with them to make this possible.… I'll try to talk to them in a professional language. But this is difficult, because where there are two lawyers, there are already at least three opinions, yes. And some are great specialists. Do you know what they say about some lawyers? If you ask a lawyer what time it is, they will look at your watch and tell you what time it is, but they will take your watch in return. Nevertheless, I will definitely talk to my colleagues.

I think this is very important. Of course, I won't go into details, as you know what is happening in agriculture: production is growing enormously, but there are also problems. And there are problems with eggs, there are problems with the right breeds of cattle, because we do not have enough meat breeds. And where is the material?

Alexander Sermyagin: It's a problem, yes.

Vladimir Putin: We still have to buy materials. There is something to do there, absolutely. That's what I think you're doing, isn't it?"

A. Sermyagin: We have a lot to offer.

Vladimir Putin: Great.

Alexander Sermyagin: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: We will definitely work on it. Thank you.

Alexey Semenov: Mr President, good evening!

Alexander Semenov, marine biologist and Head of the scientific diving group at the Belomorskaya Biological Station of Moscow State University, Moscow State University.

Vladimir Putin: You work in the White Sea, right?

Alexander Semyonov: In the White Sea, yes. But I'll start with Sakhalin.

Vladimir Putin: Do you go under water?

Alexander Semyonov: Mostly underwater, yes.

Vladimir Putin: It's cold in the White Sea.

Alexey Semyonov: We have warm suits, and in general we have learned to enjoy it, so I like it. It's very interesting there.

Vladimir Putin: As I am told in Siberia: Siberians are not those who are not afraid of frosts, but those who dress warmly. Same case, right?

A. Semenov: Exactly.

So, Sakhalin. Now, together with Moscow State University, we are creating a small new marine biological station in the south of Sakhalin. One of its tasks will also be the creation of a bioresource collection and an inventory of the entire biodiversity of the water area and the Far East region in general, because the Far Eastern seas of Russia are probably the richest water area that the country has, and it is absolutely negligibly studied, that is, practically not studied.

I, for example, dived in the Kuril Islands, which is generally my favorite place in the world where I've ever dived, it's just absolutely fantastic.

Vladimir Putin: There are sharks out there.

A. Semenov: Yes, there are sharks there, there are a lot of things there. When I dived, I just didn't know where to look, because I didn't have much time.

Vladimir Putin: And the sharks didn't know where to look, they didn't spot you.

Alexey Semenov: An inventory of all this biodiversity will give us a lot of fundamental discoveries, because this is a huge number of species of algae, microorganisms, and invertebrates. Fish is still a more or less well-known part, but 95 percent of the diversity consists of organisms that are not particularly known to us. And all these organisms are not only interesting for basic science, they can also be practically applicable as a source of new bioactive substances, which can be new drugs, bioadditives, and possibly give us access to some new materials.

I think it will be very cool if we partner with universities in the Far East and with Sakhalin State University, which is currently building a new campus on Sakhalin and in which, if we agree and equip clean laboratories, we can have all the collection and all the field work, in which students can study just universities Far East and master all techniques. And clean laboratories, where we can just conduct molecular genetic research, and create this collection and store it.

It will be great if the work of this station, its scientific program, is supported in principle at the state level in the future. Or at least they will help us reach an agreement with all interested parties, although I think we will agree in principle, because this is quite an interesting task.

And here I come to the main problem. The fact is that most of the work of extracting these animals, searching for new species, and getting them out of the water falls on the shoulders of divers, in particular mine. And I and my diving team have been diving in the White Sea for many years. Basically, this team consists of students-marine biologists who come to us, of volunteers who come and whom we train, and a little bit of researchers who also learn diving and go diving with us.

Here it is important not only to dive well and do it safely and responsibly, it is important to know all the methods of collecting material, it is important to know how the sea works in general, seasonality – that is, you need to have a good theoretical training. Therefore, it is very cool when scientists or their assistants go under the water, who study together with them and do all the work.

But there is a small problem – there is no scientific diving in Russia as such. We have a very powerful and serious diving school, we have state-certified diving for active recreation and recreation, and we have the Confederation of Underwater Activities of Russia, which has adapted and registered, in fact, a modern light-water system in Russia. That is, we have diving as such.

Vladimir Putin: Equipment?

Alexey Semyonov: Not the equipment, but a kind of training school, that is, a certification that allows you to dive. That is, it is registered with the Ministry of Justice, all this already exists.

So, diving methods of work are not very suitable for scientists, that is, they are practically not suitable at all, especially in educational terms. A diver is a separate profession with its own hours of work, with an early pension, with additional payments, with the organization of a diving service and with quite serious regulations for work.

And for scientists, immersion is more of an episodic job. They spend most of their time in laboratories, on some expedition, or at our biological stations. They come and dive: some for a week, some for a month, some for two months.

Here it turns out that we don't have any scheme by which scientists can dive officially during their working hours, without being divers.

In other words, we really want to be able, first of all, to work with students, which, I think, is the most important thing in general. Because when we can involve students in experimental work under water, to master all these techniques, to ensure that they generally study as marine biologists, look at the underwater world with their own eyes and supplement their competencies, in general, the perception of all marine biology – here we have a problem with this. That is, we can't do this. We have commercial diving for recreation, but there is no scientific diving as such. That is, we either need to become real divers and comply with all these regulations, but here we can neither attract students, nor, in general, work ourselves, because we will just spend time on all this bureaucracy, going through a lot of paperwork. It's just that scientists can't handle it.

It seems to me that Russia, which is, in fact, a maritime power – - we have a completely huge water area, very few explored seas, and I, as a person from the underwater world, am absolutely firmly convinced that the future is beyond the ocean.

Vladimir Putin: Ichthyander.

Alexander Semyonov: Yes. That's good to hear.

The development of the ocean and its resources is our bright and inevitable future.

If we can now encourage and give scientists access to the underwater world and underwater research, we will make a huge step in the development of our vast country's waters.

Vladimir Putin: Alexander Alexandrovich, I listened with great interest to what you were saying. You are a happy person, you can tell right away, not only by what you said, but by the way you did it, with such enthusiasm. Indeed, we have chosen an interesting field of activity. Everything is there, interesting.

Alexey Semyonov: I would very much like to pass this on to the next generations, because we are already teaching the children who are coming. But if you can do it officially and during your working hours, it will be just very cool.

Vladimir Putin: To what depth do you go down?

A. Semenov: In principle, almost all work, especially for novice divers, is up to 20 meters. That is, it doesn't even require any extra-serious training.

Vladimir Putin: Do you start blowing from five meters away?

Alexander Semyonov: Yes, it is already 5-7 meters, of course.

Vladimir Putin:This is a very interesting activity. You are absolutely right. The ocean is our future, it is clear, there are so many opportunities there.

Formulate it, just write down what you would like. We need to adopt some regulations that would... you said that there are certain benefits for divers, but this can still be considered.

Alexey Semyonov: We don't even need it, we don't need diving preferences at all, we just need them.…

Vladimir Putin: Preferences are easily resolved. For example, for a skydive, you get paid for each jump. So what, here you can count for a dive, it's all nonsense. The main thing is to ensure security.

A. Semenov: Security and opportunity itself. Everything else, in general, is not so important, because when you go under water - it all pays off completely. True, this is a fantastic world.

Vladimir Putin: But this is still such an extreme type of scientific research.

All right, Alexander Alexandrovich, we'll definitely think about it. I really like what you said, and I fully share your optimism about the prospects and the importance of your research. There really is an "ocean of possibilities" in the ocean.

So please state how you see it. I promise that I will give it to the Government and the Administration to study, and my colleagues will think about it. We'll find a solution.

Alexey Semyonov: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: And I wish you good luck, be careful there with the sharks.

Alexander Semyonov: All right.

Vladimir Putin: Please.

A. Demkina: Mr President, good evening!

Alina Demkina.

I would like to continue the topic of genetics and talk in more detail about such an important area as human genetics.

Vladimir Putin: I'm sorry, Alina.

Alexander Alexandrovich, you had a specific question about Sakhalin University, and the Minister and I will also talk. I think that Sakhalin University and Moscow State University will find common ground, and together they can create both a campus and a laboratory. In my opinion, there is a planned campus next to Sakhalin University.

A. Semenov: Yes, exactly. We could load each other up with both work and very interesting, promising projects for years to come.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. This can be combined with innovation centers, where you can come up with something like this. We are creating 11 centers and 25 campuses are to be built. One of the campuses is right there, on Sakhalin. We can accurately combine them there, as you said correctly, and it won't be difficult to find common ground. Thank you.

A. Demkina: Going back to genetics, as you correctly pointed out today, it is one of the leading areas of science in our country.

I represent the Center for Genome-wide research "Biotechkampus", where the national genetic initiative" 100 000+I "is being implemented within the framework of the Federal Program for the Development of genetic technologies with the support of Rosneft.

We have such a self-explanatory name, since our goal is to identify 100 thousand complete genomes of Russians, which will form the largest database of human genetic information in Russia. The database is filled with samples of volunteers from among the company's employees, samples from our medical partners, as well as ethnic samples of various peoples who live throughout our country.

Our center is equipped with a unique laboratory and powerful computing infrastructure. It is one of the largest in the country and can rightfully be considered a world-class center. Although our initiative is primarily a scientific study that will undoubtedly enhance the country's scientific sovereignty and prestige, the results of this project are also of obvious practical significance. For example, the analysis of the obtained data will allow us to assess the purity of harmful mutations in Russia, establish the genetic causes of various diseases, and, equally important, determine the reference genomes of our multinational country.

And all these results will set the development vector for the Russian healthcare system for many years to come.

Vladimir Putin: I think these reference indicators are generally understandable.

A. Demkina: No, we have a unique country with different ethnic groups. All of them have some special features that set them apart from the rest.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, I agree. And the Russian person also has a rather complex genome, probably because we have 190 ethnic groups on the territory of the country.

A. Demkina: Of course, this is a very complicated story.

Vladimir Putin: Everything is involved, which is very good, because the information is so good.

A. Demkina: Diversity is our everything.

I would like to give an example of the fruitful cooperation of our center with one of our main partners – the Dmitry Rogachev Center, where children with various blood cancers are treated from all over the country. We identified almost two thousand genome-wide sequences of young patients, which allowed us to speed up the process of making an accurate diagnosis for them.

As a result of joint efforts, dozens of unique genetic causes of hematological diseases that were not previously described in the world practice were discovered. And such results were achieved in just a year of work, which in general indicates the global level of our work. At the same time, these finds are unique in their genetic nature, that is, they have not been found in the world yet.

Vladimir Putin: You can say without hesitation: there are no such people in the world. Alina started: there are such people in the world..." There are no such people in the world. Don't be shy about your achievements.

A. Demkina: Thank you.

In parallel with our main activity under the 100,000+Ya project, we have also started a project on sequencing the genomes of Arctic species, which, as my colleagues have already mentioned, is particularly important for studying and preserving the biodiversity of such a unique region of our country as the Arctic. Now we are actively working on genome-wide sequencing of key species: the polar bear, the Atlantic walrus, and even the ancient DNA of the woolly mammoth. Like that.

Vladimir Putin: When did the woolly mammoth live?

A. Demkina: In the Ice Age.

Vladimir Putin: But do you study DNA?

A. Demkina: Yes, it has been preserved.

Vladimir Putin: I see.

A. Demkina: It was never defrosted.

Vladimir Putin: It wasn't defrosted, was it?

A. Demkina: He froze right there…

Vladimir Putin: I was waiting for Alina Olegovna to come up and study it.

A. Demkina: Our project runs until the end of 2025. Despite the fact that the center started functioning just a year ago, there is already a high demand from medical and scientific organizations in our unique database, in our competencies, in our infrastructure and in the unique bioinformatics methods that our specialists have already developed.

In addition, the global experience of such projects shows that genetic information databases bring the greatest benefits to the population when they are constantly updated, expanded, and accessible to doctors and scientists.

In this regard, Mr Putin, I propose to set a longer-term global goal for the project to create Russia's first database of one million genomes by 2030, with the voluntary involvement of Russian citizens of all ages and from all regions.

Also, Mr President, I would like to invite you to visit us at the Biotechcampus. Come. We will show you our state – of – the-art laboratory, state-of-the-art center, and tell you more about all our projects that are currently underway, which have started-literally in a year-and are growing every day. And we will tell you about the work that we have already done, which is no less important, since my examples are just the tip of such a scientific iceberg that we are currently implementing.

Vladimir Putin: You have a lab in Moscow, right?

A. Demkina: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much for the invitation.

And what is needed, besides money, in order to do this by 2030, to create such a base for a million?

A. Demkina: Basically, it's just your word, the extension of the project, that it's important.

Vladimir Putin: That is, there is enough money.

A. Demkina: And the attraction of …

Vladimir Putin: That is, you don't need any administrative resource, you do everything else yourself?

A. Demkina: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: I see.

As far as I know, Rosneft plans to allocate up to 20 billion rubles for research in the field of genetics, so this may well correspond to what is required to achieve the goals you mentioned. I'll talk to Igor Ivanovich Sechin. We'll see him the day after tomorrow, and we're planning to meet him on Friday. Therefore, we will definitely talk.

A. Demkina: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: I know that Rosneft supports this direction.

A few years ago, we agreed with our leading companies that they should direct part of their free resources to those activities that are not directly related to their main work, but may be of great interest to the country and, ultimately, to specific companies. Rosneft supports genomic research.

We will definitely talk.

A. Demkina: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you, and I would like to wish them success in this very important area of work.

A. Manakhov: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!

My name is Andrey Manakhov, and Elizaveta Rozhdestvenskikh and I represent Sirius University at this meeting, where we work on projects in the field of paleogenomics under the leadership of Academician Evgeny Ivanovich Rogaev.

Paleogenomics is a very young and rapidly developing field, which is a very powerful tool for studying the past of humanity. We can say that we use our own methods to make the bones of long-dead people speak and learn their history.

It is no secret that many discoveries in the field of paleogenomics – for example, the description of a new form of fossil man, the Denisovian man…

Vladimir Putin: Alina Olegovna studies the bones of the living…

A. Manakhov: Well, not bones…

Vladimir Putin: I see. You know I'm joking. She deals with today's people – she studies genomes, and you study those who…

A. Manakhov: Yes, those who were there before.

Vladimir Putin: Before us.

A. Manakhov: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: It's very interesting. What do they tell you?

A. Manakhov: I will also tell you about this now.

Many discoveries in the field of paleogenomics were made at archaeological sites discovered on the territory of our country, and then sent for study to foreign laboratories. But it is fundamentally and even strategically important that objects representing the cultural and historical heritage of Russia, issues of the ethnogenesis of the Russian people and the formation of the ancient Russian state are studied mainly in domestic research centers. And today there are all opportunities for this.

An example of this is a large scientific project supported by the Ministry of Education and Science - "Genetic History of the ancient population of the Russian Plain", which is being implemented, among other things, on the basis of the laboratory at Sirius University.

As part of this interdisciplinary project, which is being implemented at the intersection of natural sciences and humanities, my colleagues and I managed to conduct genetic screening of the largest Russian archaeological collections and obtain genome-wide sequencing data for more than 300 samples from the Stone Age to the Middle Ages. In particular, for the first time, a complete genomic analysis of the Neanderthal from the Mezmay cave was performed on the basis of domestic laboratories, here in the Krasnodar Territory, and really important results were obtained about the history of Neanderthals.

One of the directions of our project was…

Vladimir Putin: They're extinct, aren't they?

A. Manakhov: Yes, unfortunately, they are all extinct, but the Neanderthals also left their contribution to the genomes of living people – about two or three percent of us have Neanderthal DNA.

Vladimir Putin: Some have two, some have a little more.

A. Manakhov: Yes, some have a little more, some have a little less. But Neanderthals are a long way from us.

Vladimir Putin: From homo sapiens, right?

A. Manakhov: No, I mean, from us as modern residents of Russia, let's just say.

One of the directions was the study of the history of Great Scythia. This is an ancient state located on the territory of the Northern Black Sea coast from the VII to the III century BC, and then mysteriously disappeared. As part of our project, we were able to analyze more than 100 samples from Scythian mounds in the southern regions of our country – Voronezh, Crimea, and the Black Sea region. And they were able to show that the population of Great Scythia had mainly similarities with the European population, in particular with the Eastern Slavic one as well.

And a very interesting result was that the population of Great Scythia, which is European, was very weakly genetically related to its Asian neighbors, also representatives of the Scythian culture, which at that time was extremely widespread.

Thus, we can draw some parallels even with our country today. As already mentioned, we are a very multi-ethnic, genetically diverse country, but we are united by one common culture, and, as we can see, our research has shown that this was the case in these territories three thousand years ago. That is, we continue certain traditions set by our distant ancestors.

Today, there are all opportunities to expand paleogenomic research in our country. First of all, this is a unique body of anthropological material that we have accumulated, for example, the Phanagoria monument also on the territory of the Krasnodar Territory with its centuries-old history, an extensive collection from Siberia and the Far East. And they are still waiting for their researcher.

But, unfortunately, without government support, large-scale research in this area is extremely difficult due to the fact that the analysis of one ancient genome takes much longer and is about an order of magnitude more expensive than the study of one modern genome, which is carried out by colleagues.

Unfortunately, this project of ours, which I mentioned earlier, is being completed this year, and we would like to ask you to consider supporting – perhaps even on a permanent basis-the further implementation of work in the field of paleogenomics in our country, because we are convinced that this is exactly the right area It will allow us to respond to a number of challenges, both external and internal, that our country is facing today.

Vladimir Putin: Andrey Dmitrievich, I completely agree with you, because, indeed, you listen to so much nonsense, so much alluvial stuff that has no basis in fact. In general, they talk nonsense. Of course, serious research is highly sought after. It is very important for the people of Russia to understand who we are, where we come from, and these development trends.

You just said that it was three thousand years ago. In fact, I know the current state – this difference remains, and the traditional cultural background is common. It is very interesting. In this sense, we can really say that Russia is a unique civilization. This has a scientific basis, supported by the results of your work. It is very important.

Now let's move on to simple, pragmatic things: how much do you need? Seriously. We allocated funds to you. Is that all now? They're over, and then nothing?

A. Manakhov: The project is coming to an end this year. For further extension, the question is probably already addressed to our colleagues. But the project size was 100 million per year.

Vladimir Putin: 100 million can be found. Andrey Alexandrovich has a lot of money, apparently-invisibly.

Alexey Fursenko: I don't have 100 million, I can tell you right away.

Vladimir Putin: Please mark it as Andrey Alexandrovich.

A. Fursenko: There is. I understood.

Vladimir Putin: This is very interesting and very important. It is a study of ourselves. Very important.

I'm already regretting staying in the office too long. I'd love to hear more from you, I wonder.

The Russian plain is a large area from the Baltic to the Ural Mountains and from the northern seas to the Black Sea.

A. Manakhov: From the White Sea to the Black Sea. Very extensive territory.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. And all this is our story. Very, very interesting.

A. Manakhov: And one more aspect of our research, if I may, will be discussed in more detail by Elizabeth.

Vladimir Putin: Please.

Yevgeny Rozhdestvenskikh: Good evening, Mr President!

In continuation of Andrey's speech, I would like to say that, despite all the achievements of paleogenetics in Russia, some of which he has already highlighted today, many do not know about the existence of such a direction.

I'll give you a personal example. This year I completed my master's degree at Sirius University, but before I came here, I had very vague ideas about the science of paleo - and archaeogenetics. I've heard that mammoth DNA is being studied somewhere, and the genomes of ancient humans are being studied somewhere. But there was a feeling that a very limited circle of people were doing this and only in foreign laboratories.

However, in the course of my training, I learned that this field is well developed in Russia and that it provides a powerful evidence base for the development of historical sciences. And that even a student can participate in such works.

For example, while working on my master's thesis, I conducted genetic studies of the bone remains of representatives of the Chernyakhov culture, which existed in vast territories of Eastern Europe-from Romania to Russia, in the II-IV centuries AD. When studying genetic data using mathematical methods, multiple theories about the supposed ancestors of this group were tested and some of them were proved. So, we have established a genetic link with the Scythian-Sarmatian tribes and a genetic link with the Greco-Romans. In addition, a genetic link was established with some peoples of Scandinavia, in particular with the Vikings, who were previously not considered by anyone as a related group to the Chernyakhov culture.

I also note that a large number of volunteers participate in the archaeological stage of these studies, but many of them may not realize that the bones they find during excavations can later fall into the hands of geneticists for study. At the same time, the correct exhumation and storage of these remains is very important to prevent contamination of ancient DNA with modern DNA, which can lead to difficulties in analyzing genetic data.

Therefore, it is necessary to inform the general public in principle about the existence of such a field in Russia as paleogenetics, and about its success. The members of our consortium are already taking measures to promote such science as paleo-and archaeogenetics: these include presentations at scientific conferences, lectures, and media coverage.

At Sirius, we often communicate with schoolchildren and students who come for educational modules. We always see interest when we talk about the research that we do, and when we show how we do it, our laboratories and our scientists. We hope that with the support of paleo-and archaeogenetic research, we will continue to increase this interest both in this area of science and in the history itself, which it affects, in particular in the interest in the history of our country.

Thank you for your attention.

Vladimir Putin: You know, as I have already said, this type of activity, the new science of paleogenetics – very few people really know about it, and it is perceived as a field of activity for a select few people, narrow specialists, although it is just a science at the intersection of sciences-genetics, archeology, as I understand it, everything here, anything, maybe even art.

Yes, of course, it is important to promote it. The material is needed. And so we will tell our colleagues from the media. The Ernst Institute was mentioned here, we also have an active Ernst-Konstantin Lvovich, this is Channel One, you can talk to the heads of VGTRK, Oleg Borisovich Dobrodeev and our other colleagues from Gazprom-Media, they have a huge holding there, and there are also large private holdings.

So we will definitely do it, just give you the material. Let's do this. That's what you do, isn't it?

E. Rozhdestvenskikh: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Good. We will definitely find a contact for you there, maybe even from the Administration, who will find it easier to connect you later with those who show interest, from the media, okay?

E. Rozhdestvenskikh: Yes. Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you.

All right, let's finish up?

Pavel Alipov: I'm also here.

Pavel Alipov, Associate Professor at the Russian State University for the Humanities. I am a historian, and it was my colleagues in paleogenetics who naturally threw a bridge to our humanities. The fact is that these are, of course, our common themes: the interaction of peoples, the unity of peoples, the development of civilizations.

The specifics of our science, not everyone understands this, are that there are historical calculations that can simply change people's worldview and determine this worldview, the historical worldview.

I am making this preamble because I want to tell you about some practical things – about our cooperation with the new territories, in particular with the Mariupol State University.

The fact is that in general, this interaction began in a completely miraculous way. At one time, this was a personal initiative of our professor Galina Yershova, who is a leading expert on Mesoamerica. It would seem that there is nothing close to the Donbass and to these stories. But her heart was burning so much that in October last year she got into a car and went to Mariupol to meet people, see who works how, just to see what is happening in life.

You know, the first thing she encountered when she started communicating with her colleagues, first of all, she tried to reach out to historians, and it turned out that there was only one historian left, because all the historians who worked before had all relocated to Kiev. Why did they relocate? But because they have been building a completely different picture of the world for decades, explaining that we are completely different peoples, that nothing connects us-of course, all these things that are constantly being said. But the situation was a stalemate.

Vladimir Putin: Send them to the geneticists. They will quickly put everything in its place.

Pavel Alipov: Yes, I think this is promising.

But the thing is, they came up with a different problem. The new school year is coming up. And how to teach history students? Because all the textbooks, all the manuals – it is absolutely impossible to teach these guys, because the picture of the world is completely different.

And that's when the university got involved, because we're a liberal arts university, it's a matter of honor, and we collected textbooks. Russian State University for the Humanities: for us, history is our main specialty.

And then we began to collect textbooks, manuals, and office equipment at the same time – teachers and employees were just personally thrown off. And then I appeared in this story, because Galina Gavrilovna called and said: Pasha, will you go with this cargo?

I went, it was the end of January last year. Of course, we were only able to meet with the management – rectors and vice-rectors. Why? Because the university was still destroyed at that time. The picture was such that there were holes in the walls, no heating, and in several offices that did not have these holes, they locked themselves, turned on the heaters, and so the rectors worked with the vice-rectors. Naturally, we didn't see any students at that time, because they were all transferred online.

Then an idea came up: this is not enough. They took me and provided me with this literature. By the way, it was very useful, and we were thanked. Indeed, the learning process was normalized thanks to these books. But I say: where are the students, we need to meet them. And then we started planning a new step. We need to make some kind of "round table" to "live", so that our guys can meet with the Mariupol guys.

And here, I will tell you, there were some very important things for me personally when I voiced this question. We started planning, but in my heart I was a little afraid: will I be able to persuade my guys to go there and, accordingly, how those guys will meet us?

What is surprising is that when we started working – we initially planned to do it in April, but we had to postpone it there for security reasons, and as a result, we were able to make this second trip with our students in August. The ministry has advised us that there are two people, because we don't need a large group yet.

It turned out to be a contest, just a contest! In the end, I took the girl with me. Sorry for the sexism, I didn't expect the girl to want to go at all, because well, somehow the boys are bolder. And then this little girl says to me: You know, Pavel Andreevich, if I don't have enough space, I'll just ride on the floor in the car or on the bus. She shocked me, this girl, I, of course, recorded her then.

But then the situation developed more interestingly. A few days later, I leave my office, go to the elevator, and get ready to go home. A guy, our boy student, blocks my way and says: Pavel Andreevich, what is this, why is this girl going, I'm an excellent student, I participate in all events, and you took the girl, but you don't take me, I have to sit here. And then I realized that there is a request for our guys to go there.

And when we were already in Mariupol and met with those guys, we had an absolutely normal, interested conversation, that is, they want to meet, they want to communicate. And the most important thing is that there is already a different infrastructure: by August, in these six months, probably even less, there is just a city... Well, you were there, so you know everything, there is the Nevsky district, Izumrudny. And most importantly, the university campus is already being revived, the building has already been put into operation.

Why am I telling you all this? You can find a lot of these pictures and sketches here, of course… I think we need this potential, which is already being developed, and we can see the desire to communicate, interact, and work, and we must not lose it.

And I would ask you, Vladimir Vladimirovich, to give some kind of assignment so that we can lay the foundation for such a large annual conference, I won't say congress, although the dream was to lay the foundation for such a humanitarian, perhaps not purely historical one, so that there would be international experts, political scientists in addition to historians, because this is exactly what we need. the humanitarian component is now important, the ideological one. So that we can do this and attract more foreign researchers, because we have many friendly countries, and we are also talking about this. Well, the West has fallen off for a while, but then they will come and ask for it themselves.

Vladimir Putin: They will want to eat.

P. Alipov: Yes. We have Latin America, we have the same Serbia. I won't mention who you could invite, but it should be so powerful.

And within the framework of this conference, the dream was to create a school for young humanitarians, historians, I don't know who. Because this idea was given to me by the rector of Mariupol University Larisa Anatolievna Sivolap. We were standing on the seashore, just a romantic story: the Sea of Azov, August, summer. It stands, shows us that people are already swimming here and everything is fine. She says: look, we could have done everything in a human way, the city is recovering at such a pace. There are high chances that these sanatorium zones will be restored, and it would be quite possible to remove some building so that the guys can combine the pleasant with the useful. After all, this is the city's potential.

So I started talking, I'll finish it now, but if this whole complex were implemented in such a way, it would not only shoot up in science, as they say, but it would also be a big, bright event for the city and for the whole of Donbass, which would allow developing the city's infrastructure, because people come to such an event. All this will entail some such household items.

Here, Mr Putin, if you support me, it would be very nice.

Vladimir Putin: Pavel Andreevich, I think this is very important, especially since these are pseudo-stories that you mentioned, and people have been brainwashed there for decades. It is very important that on the basis of true, real, serious research, people have a clear idea of who we are, what we are, who and what we are. Part of our community, such as ethnic, cultural, and linguistic. So that we all have a clear, clear idea of this commonality of the Russian world, based on scientific knowledge. Extremely important.

Consider that, Pavel Andreevich, we have agreed. These are not studies that require a large laboratory base. Here he closed the language, and the workplace is cleaned. The main thing is to keep your head in place.

Pavel Alipov: This is a plus of the humanities, by the way.

Vladimir Putin: I know, I'm a humanist myself, so I say that confidently. It is inexpensive in the material sense, in the monetary sense, but it means a lot. Consider it settled.

Pavel Alipov: Thank you very much.

A. Shapieva: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,

Anna Shapieva, Zabaikalsky State University, Chairman of the Council of Young Scientists and Students.

First of all, I would like to thank you for your attention and support to our university. Thanks to the Far Eastern track of the federal program "Priority-2030", we managed to involve more than 30 young researchers in our laboratories.

Vladimir Putin: Anya, I'm sorry, for God's sake, so that I don't forget.

But when you organize it, be sure to use the results of the research that is available here.

P. Alipov: We will invite you, yes.

Vladimir Putin: It really matters. It will simply reinforce you at every step. Even if something doesn't match up with ours… It doesn't matter. It is important that it is fair and transparent, objective and based on real knowledge.

I'm sorry, Anya. You are welcome.

A. Shapieva: Practical use of science.

In our Trans-Baikal State University, we have engaged more than 30 young researchers from our laboratory as part of the program. Today, the guys are working on import substitution projects together with the enterprises of the region. This is such a powerful opportunity and support for young researchers.

Today, a number of scientific and educational programs have been launched for them, including students working on a project to create a world-class campus in Chita on your behalf.

My research is related to the study of human resources in the field of science and innovation, is related to the study of the system of motivation of young people in science, because, I believe, and my research confirms this, today this is a critical area. We really need to build up the talent pool in the field of science and, of course, restore the prestige and status of scientists in society.

Today, this task is carried out both within the framework of the Decade of science and Technology, and within the framework of national projects, and, of course, this is a key task for every scientific and educational organization in our country.

Today, Russia has created, in my opinion, unprecedented support measures for young people, for their research. Graduate students from all over the country, thousands of students, met with great gratitude your decree, which you have already mentioned today, about the scholarship for graduate students. This has actually found a great response in the youth community.

I would probably like to thank you separately on behalf of the entire community for this, thank you very much.

Today, graduate students will not worry about such material issues and will be able to devote more time to science. I am no longer a graduate student myself, but I am very happy for my students, for future graduate students, that is, those students who today will look towards science as a professional point of development.

Of course, this is one of the cool opportunities for modern youth. Today I would like to share the experience of another such additional opportunity for young people engaged in science and research, which was created today at the initiative of the Coordinating Council for Youth Affairs for schoolchildren, undergraduates, postgraduates and young scientists. Of course, I'm talking about the Mendeleev Map.

This is a project that has been supported by the Ministry of Science and Higher Education, relevant departments, and the State Duma, and has found a response from more than 30 business partners.

"Mendeleevskaya card" is such a large loyalty program for young people, which allows them to receive various bonuses and is a direct measure of support.

Today, the Mendeleev map is also such an important tool for forming a community of young scientists. Indeed, thanks to such support, we can meet more often, communicate more often, share opinions, and create such mutual projects, including here and today.

It seems to me that along with the already positive trends in the development of this project, it deserves attention at the federal level and could receive such support from state structures, in particular museums, theaters, and sanatoriums. This is actually very popular among young scientists. I communicate with my colleagues, including on the subject of this project, and get just such a response.

It would be great if such a measure of support were still available from government organizations. Therefore, we would ask you to support the project in this part as well.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Can I be more specific? After all, this Mendeleev card provides certain benefits. What is the source?

A. Shapieva: Today, these are partners. These are various discounts.

Vladimir Putin: I understand that. But are these specific partners in various fields and areas of activity?

A. Shapieva: Yes, this is Rosatom…

Vladimir Putin: This is understandable. And what do museums and theaters have to do with it?

A. Shapieva: This is a social measure to support young scientists. In other words, the Mendeleev card is not only about discounts on air or railway tickets, it is also about additional events from our partners.

It would be great if a young scientist could, let's just say, get some preferences just for his status, just for his work as a scientist. That is, a separate such area, a separate status. This would give us the opportunity to emphasize the special role of science, and once again demonstrate to schoolchildren and society as a whole that it is possible to develop in science today. The state and business see young scientists and actively support their start in science and receive such support.

Vladimir Putin: When you said about museums, theaters there, exhibition halls, probably yes?

A. Shapieva: Yes, of course.

Vladimir Putin: Then I immediately remembered about another form of support for young guys - this is the Pushkin card.

A. Shapieva: There is one.

Vladimir Putin: I guess that's what you meant, too. See what's in there. It's just that this Mendeleev map and the Pushkin map operate on different principles.

A. Shapieva: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: If the Mendeleev card is based on the fact that preferences are provided by some companies, then the Pushkin card-the source of funding is the budget, and the money goes to young people who can visit the same museums, theaters, and so on. This is supported by the theaters themselves, the museums themselves, the exhibition spaces themselves, and so on. But it is the budget that allocates funds.

But in this case, as you said about the Mendeleev card, these are partners, large companies, and this is an additional cost for them.

A. Shapieva: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: This is not budget money. Of course, we can and will definitely do this, and we will also talk to those who finance this work under the Mendeleev Map.

As for the social part and simply expanding, say, the actions of this Mendeleev map, then we need the Government to work out whether and from what time support from the federal budget is possible. Now the budget has almost been adopted, so it will probably not be easy to make any additional changes related to expenses. But the idea itself is a good one. Let's think about how to implement it. A good idea.

A. Shapieva: Thank you. We are ready to join in thinking about the mechanisms.

Vladimir Putin: But the mechanism is simple-money on the table. We should tell Siluanov: give me the money. He's going to cry: there's no money. But it doesn't matter.

A. Shapieva: We need to find funds for young scientists.

Vladimir Putin: I'll pass it on.

A. Shapieva: Thank you, Mr President.

Vladimir Putin: I agree. We will definitely work. A good idea. I don't think it will cost that much.

What is the age of scientists, probably, and students? First, students have the opportunity to use the Pushkin Map.

A. Shapieva: And they are actively using it.

Why am I talking about the status of such a special feature of young scientists? The Mendeleev card is designed primarily for prize-winners of Olympiads and professional competitions among schoolchildren and students. All graduate students and young scientists under 35 years of age.

Vladimir Putin: We need to see which of them fall under the Pushkin Map…

A. Shapieva: Students, up to students.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. Who doesn't make it. And then develop a mechanism for this category. It is not numerous, this category.

A. Shapieva: We have already thought of everything.

Vladimir Putin: A lot of time passes from the way we came up with this idea to how the bureaucracy implements all this. We will try to speed this up.

Andrey Alexandrovich at our general meeting complained about the bureaucracy, although he is a bureaucrat himself.

We will definitely work. A good idea.

A. Shapieva: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: Are we finishing up?

Kirill Starikov: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,

Kirill Starikov, Geoscan Company, post-graduate student at St. Petersburg State University.

Currently, a program of launching school nanosatellites in the Kopsat format is active in Russia. More satellites were launched under this program in 2022-2023 than under educational programs of other countries in the same period. More than 30 devices are actively working and performing research, applied and, of course, educational tasks.

The program has developed a full set of domestic technologies that are necessary for launching nanosatellites into space. These are a number of satellite platforms from Russian private companies, containers for launching on a launch vehicle, cameras for both the budget segment and for delivering high-resolution remote sensing, engines, various scientific and payloads.

This project has the potential to expand both in terms of increasing the science intensity of satellite data, as well as in terms of program coverage and increasing the number of students, as well as creating more opportunities for young scientists to participate in real scientific projects and process real data from such nanosatellites. We will work on this and develop this project.

Also, while working with current satellites, the task of receiving data from these devices and developing the ground segment arose. The project of the network of open ground research complexes, of which I am the head, aims to solve this problem by providing an open and accessible software and hardware platform for creating a network of ground stations.

Currently, Geoscan supplies 50 sets of ground stations to schools and educational organizations from Kaliningrad to Kamchatka all over Russia free of charge. Students using these stations will be able not only to receive data, photos or data from payloads, but also to gain new knowledge in all related disciplines.

In my experience, I can say that children are very interested in this. We conducted classes with middle and high school children, assembled antennas, and took photos from these antennas and satellites. They are very interested in this, and their children are genuinely interested in it.

It seems that these projects – networks of ground stations and educational satellites-perfectly complement each other and create an opportunity for a unique scientific and educational project in the world, where you can see a very clear line when a student works with this antenna, gets some knowledge as part of additional education, and then chooses the appropriate specialty at the university. At the university, as a student, he works with a payload: either invents experiments, or develops it with his own hands, and later, after university, with experience, he chooses the appropriate specialty in this field of the future.

I would also like to point out that our international colleagues from Beijing Tsinghua University, from the African region, have already contacted us to cooperate on both stations and satellites. I think this area is also very important, and we will continue to develop it, as we also consider cooperation in this area in science and education to be very important.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: You're welcome so far. What do you need?

Kirill Starikov: Well, basically nothing. We are working and developing. But it would be great…

Vladimir Putin: Here's a good man.

Kirill Starikov: I know that you recently commissioned me to organize a national space project. It would be great if such educational programs included:…

Vladimir Putin: You've entered it, haven't you?

Kirill Starikov: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Kirill Igorevich, seriously speaking, this is a very important and promising area. We will continue to develop and support it. I will definitely talk to the management of Roscosmos. And of course, if the guys participate in the launch activities – we give them the opportunity to work on vehicles that end up in space - then, of course, we need to create ground stations and complexes. I agree. Do you need any additional funding there?

Kirill Starikov: The idea here is to make this project broader, aimed at a larger number of schools, to involve universities, that is, to expand the project itself. We can do both station and satellite projects on our own, but I think this expansion is very important.

Vladimir Putin: Are you in contact with Roscosmos ?

Kirill Starikov: Yes, we are in contact. They support the ideas of both stations and satellites. Just would like this project to…

Vladimir Putin: Were you included in the program?

Kirill Starikov: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Good. I will definitely talk to Yuri Ivanovich [Borisov].

Kirill Starikov: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: Good luck to you.

Mikhail Krinitsky: Mr President, good evening!

Mikhail Krinitsky, Head of the Laboratory of Machine Learning in Earth Sciences at Phystech since September of this year, including a senior researcher at the Institute of Oceanology of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Why do I introduce myself like this? Actually, my topic is a little sideways from human resources, it's about climate and artificial intelligence. We know that climate change affects our country about twice as much as all other countries in general.

Vladimir Putin: We are warming faster and at a faster pace than in other regions.

Mikhail Krinitsky: Yes. This, as economists say, is due to the low base effect.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. And then we are a northern country, we have permafrost thawing and so on.

Mikhail Krinitsky: Yes, there is such an effect. This is very serious.

Vladimir Putin: That is why the process is progressing faster in terms of percentage.

Mikhail Krinitsky: Yes, it is true.

At this point, we realize that the first and most important thing we need to do is start measuring our own effects that are associated with it.

There are two sides to this question. Side number one is the measurements themselves, they must be correct and reliable. Side number two is the problem of adequate perception of the results of our research in the international arena.

Actually, the first aspect is related to measurements: we measure the ability of our territories – forests, arable lands, swamps, marine areas – to deposit, that is, to absorb greenhouse gases, or to emit greenhouse gases. We are working to develop new measurement methods to expand the measurement network. This is done within the framework of several projects: for example, the most important innovative project of state significance for monitoring climate-active substances and the project of the Ministry of Education and Science "Carbon landfills".

Vladimir Putin: If permafrost is actively melting, how critical will its methane emissions be and how much will they increase?

Mikhail Krinitsky: There are different estimates. Indeed, there are estimates that suggest that melting permafrost could work as some such methane bomb. There are other ratings… This should be checked empirically, and it is also checked on some models. About models, I will now touch on the question.

Accordingly, the second aspect of this whole problem is precisely related to how our methods for assessing these processes – natural processes and greenhouse gas absorption missions-are perceived in the international arena. Why is this important? In fact, in a year and a half or two, we will have a carbon cross-border export tax, depending on the assessment methods: whether it will be calculated according to our methods or not according to our methods. Now there are estimates that say that the difference in the amount of this tax can be several tens of billions of dollars a year, if it is estimated in dollars. Accordingly, this is actually very important simply from the point of view of money.

From the point of view of measuring and modeling natural processes, we are currently working to model or measure them. Accordingly, I am involved in these two projects, including those involving the use of artificial intelligence methods: we are developing new methods using artificial intelligence, and we are adapting already known classical methods.

There is some problem here. It consists in the fact that when we start applying artificial intelligence using machine learning in these sciences, that is, in climate sciences, in atmospheric sciences, in ocean sciences, and in Earth sciences in general, we face, first of all, some rejection of our results and our methods even in the territory of the Russian Federation. our country. This is understandable academic skepticism about new methods, because artificial intelligence methods appeared not so long ago. We are getting a lot of specialists in artificial intelligence. It is very good. But usually these specialists are now not very qualified in physics, ocean physics, in the atmosphere and in climate. And, for example, those specialists who are trained in climate and ocean atmospheric physics do not always have expertise in artificial intelligence.

I am a teacher myself, I teach the subject "artificial intelligence for oceanologists", but these are isolated stories. That is, there is a big problem here – the penetration of artificial intelligence into the academic sphere itself, in Earth science and in natural sciences in general. I talked to my colleagues, and this is a really big problem.

And in education. Well, at Phystech I managed to launch this course – "artificial intelligence for oceanologists". But this is also an isolated story. There is a big problem with the creaking [?] of such initiatives.

The second aspect is the perception of our methods, these new methods, the results of our research with classical methods in the international arena. Naturally, there is probably a very strong political subtext here right now.

We are working with this, we are actively publishing. This is the factor that allows us to promote the results of our research in the international arena. We publish in good rating magazines. We demonstrate our results at international conferences. In other words, we are doing a lot to promote our results. But we have very little time. Literally one and a half to two years - and the same tax will already work. Accordingly, there is a feeling that these rates are not enough, the ones that we publish and demonstrate.

For example, with regard to this problem, I think it makes sense to implement some educational initiatives, that is, to use what is called soft power methods in those places in the international arena where they are ready to see the results of our research. This may include some kind of field series of seminars, field series of lectures, maybe even some educational programs in those states that are ready to accept them, which, for example, have historically not been so powerful in their expertise on climate and artificial intelligence. I will emphasize that it is actually very important that specialists should have expertise in two areas at the same time. This is one of the difficulties that I face all the time in the educational part.

And here I just come to the solution of the second problem, which I would like to close. That is, to increase the intensity of penetration of artificial intelligence and complex statistical methods of machine learning into natural sciences. In particular, I am primarily concerned with Earth sciences, but I see that all natural sciences suffer from this.

Accordingly, it is necessary to increase the intensity of artificial intelligence penetration into educational programs that are aimed specifically at students who study the ocean, atmosphere, and climate. Because for them, artificial intelligence should look completely different, it is not the creation of some pictures or text, it is complex statistical models that need to be trained a little differently than standard specialists in artificial intelligence are taught now.

Accordingly, I think there are currently two such administrative requests.

This is an increase in the intensity of educational programs – both here, in Russia, and, perhaps, somewhere abroad, where they are now able to perceive it-in relation to climate expertise and artificial intelligence, which is related to climate sciences, ocean sciences and atmospheric sciences.

Vladimir Putin: First of all, as far as educational programs are concerned. I completely agree with you: in the People's Republic of China, they start learning artificial intelligence from school, from school.

Herman Oskarovich gave me the textbooks directly, I think, almost from the first grade. There are, I think, six textbooks, six books in total. This is right, our friends are doing absolutely right.

Given the level of education in Russia, this is absolutely normal for us. The question is how to properly organize school programs, according to a certain age, and this will certainly increase the penetration of artificial intelligence in various areas.

I have recorded what you said. This is absolutely true. But, of course, it is not enough to introduce this into school curricula, we need to work "more broadly and more [in depth] (ширше и глыбже)", and we will try to do this. That's what we're doing right now. Here you can talk endlessly about this topic. But I agree with you, the Government faces such a task.

Now let's talk about using these opportunities to study the Earth, the ocean, the climate, and so on. Of course, big data systems in such areas of research are of paramount importance and give them more meaning, and the results will be much higher. It's just that there's nothing to talk about here, if we can help you take advantage of these opportunities that currently exist. By the way, they said the same thing in Rosatom and Sberbank, and in some of our other companies that do not want to show themselves particularly yet, but they have achieved good results. All this can be done and supported.

Then, as you said, we need to achieve recognition of the results of our research both in terms of absorbing emissions, and in terms of what is actually happening in industry and in nature. Yes, of course, we need to work on it. This is an obvious thing.

What we can achieve or not achieve is a rhetorical question.

Mikhail Krinitsky: We just need to act.

Vladimir Putin: And you need to act in any case.

Mikhail Krinitsky: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. If you don't act, everything dies. What is not applied dies away. Therefore, it is definitely perfect, you need to act, you need to work, you need to achieve recognition. But the enthusiasm of our competitors for this research and the attempt to introduce a cross-border tax is related to their desire to repay our competitive advantages, including in the use of hydrocarbons.

What is the whole point of a cross-border tax? We have cheap energy carriers, energy resources, the primary source is cheap, which makes everything cheaper. This includes metals, fertilizers – everything that makes up significant items of our export, everything is cheaper than they have. And they want to solve this problem of competitiveness for themselves with the help of administrative manipulations.

But here the problems of today arise. First, they limit their ability to cooperate with us. For Europe, the source of cheap energy sources is being cut off by them themselves, or it is being done by their allies from the United States, who are cutting off our cheap primary energy sources for political reasons, or simply blowing up gas pipelines, or shutting them down.

Poland took and closed the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline, which goes to Germany. Ukraine took and closed one of the systems, one is still working, and they closed one. They receive money from Europe and Germany, including for weapons, pensions, social payments, and salaries, but the gas they need has been cut off from Russia. And the Germans swallow all this, because they do not have sovereignty, and some government leaders do not have enough professional training to make high-quality professional decisions.

It is known that the whole world makes fun of them, I will not mention their names now, but the whole world really makes fun of them. But they still live with it. That's their business. But the importance of this cross-border tax still remains three years ago, but it is not as acute as it was yesterday, because they receive less of all these products from us. And those developing economies with which we actively cooperate, intend and will continue to do so, they themselves are supposed targets of attack from developed economies.

Therefore, we can quite easily promote these ideas, which you are currently talking about, together, say, within the BRICS framework. But it is certainly necessary to seek recognition of the results of our work and yours. So we will definitely do this.

Just make it clear that if you need any specific help-for you, your company, or your institution – we will try to do it, because it is important. I fully agree that you are at the forefront of what the country needs.

Mikhail Krinitsky: All right.

Vladimir Putin: These are quite obvious things.

Mikhail Krinitsky: Thank you. Let's formulate it.

Vladimir Putin: Just so that it doesn't disappear. Andrey Alexandrovich went in through Sirius .

Mikhail Krinitsky: I'm sure it won't be lost.

Vladimir Putin: Through Elena Vladimirovna. You are an optimist. This is good, it pleases.

Mikhail Krinitsky: I'm still young.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, it is. Pessimists, as you know, are well-informed optimists.

Please give it to Elena Vladimirovna. She can tell us, okay?" Thank you.

Mikhail Krinitsky: All right.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, this was the last of the planned words. If there is no final word yet…

Vladimir Putin: Please, please.

Mikhail Krinitsky: I don't think it was planned. Then you can go to the lobby and take a general photo. There was such a request from our colleagues. And from me, too.

Vladimir Putin: All right, I'd love to, come on.

Thank you very much. I was very interested to hear it. I would like to listen to some of my colleagues again and again, because it can't help but arouse interest. I'm not going to highlight it now, but it's just interesting. I sincerely envy you and am happy for you that you have found yourself in such interesting and promising areas.

And it's clear that you're all passionate about what you're doing. This, of course, fills life with such concrete, serious, useful and interesting content, and makes a person happy.

I want to wish you every success.

Thank you. [My Emphasis]

I hope readers made it through to the end as the last discussion was geopolitically very important. As usual, another very stimulating discussion on a very broad range of scientific topics. Some interesting translation challenges too. Lots of usable and useful information.

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