Zhang Weiwei & Chinese Language Media Part Two

This is China TV program broadcast August 21, 2023

As noted at the end of Part One, the TV transcripts are long and include Q&A from the studio audience which is often composed of Fudan University students. This show is titled, “West, Face Reality” where Zhang Weiwei, his co-host Wu Xinwen, and the moderator deconstruct the article, “The West Must Prepare for a Long Overdue Reckoning” written for the US publication National Interest by Chandran Nair, who is a Singapore/Malaysian businessman and founder of the Global Institute for Tomorrow, and someone who’s likely sympathetic to the West based on this photo.

Here’s the header preamble at the top:

"The whole world has entered the 'post-Western era', and the sooner the West recognizes this, the better it will be for the West's own interests."

"The reality that the West has to face and accept means that the influence of the West, led by the United States, is not as good as in the past."

"Will the U.S. repeatedly impose sanctions on scientists who have a cooperative relationship between China and the United States, will this continue?"

At present, the world is undergoing major changes unprecedented in a century, and observing the changes in the international pattern in recent years will find that the Western world has failed to accurately grasp the current world trend. In the 8th episode of "This is China" broadcast by Oriental Satellite TV on August 21, Professor Zhang Weiwei, Dean of the Institute of China Studies of Fudan University, and Professor Wu Xinwen of the Institute of China Studies of Fudan University discussed related topics.

The article is one of several that have recently appeared related to the defeat of Ukraine and the rise of BRICS and is an interesting read provided one can ignore all the ads. The discussion provides two POVs followed by a roundtable format, which is capped by a brief Q&A from the audience. Compared with the previous transcript this one has some translation errors, numeric and syntactic, that I opted to leave as is. And now for the discussion:

Zhang Weiwei:

We have aired 198 episodes of this show. This program has always focused on deconstructing Western discourse, constructing Chinese discourse, and establishing Chinese its own mainstream narrative of China, the West, and the entire outside world. We have repeatedly pointed out that the world has entered the "post-Western era" and "post-American era".

Not long ago, Mr. Chandran Nair, director of the Global Future Institute, published an article in the American magazine The National Interest, and his core views are quite consistent with ours. He pointed out that today's world has changed, and it is long overdue for the West to accept the new reality. I would like to share his views with you and start a discussion.

Mr. Chandran Nair's article begins by stating that a "post-Western" multipolar international order is about to take shape. All of this is challenging many of the ideas and mechanisms that have underpinned the West's global dominance for centuries, challenging many of the privileges that the West has long enjoyed, and transforming international relations as a whole.

The authors argue that this change is driven by five trends that will force Western countries to accept power-sharing with the non-Western world and accept the birth of a multipolar world, or the West's own interests will be damaged and global stability will be at risk.

So these five trends are:

First, the historical narrative of the West so far has begun to disintegrate.

With the spread of the Internet and social media, the gatekeepers who represent the West – note the term "gatekeeper institutions of the West" – such as the Western media, universities, and publishing houses, can no longer monopolize the interpretation of history.

The killing and plundering of Western colonialists in the Americas, slavery and exploitation in Africa, etc., are increasingly known to the global public. Non-Western countries have begun to explore their own history, their own culture, their own civilization heritage, and no longer accept Western-dominated historical narratives. As we have also pointed out many times in this program, non-Western powers today call themselves "civilized countries", adhere to their own independent civilization system, and reject Western values diplomacy and interference in internal affairs.

Mr. Chandran Nair also mentioned that countries like India have officially begun to demand the return of wealth stolen from India during the colonial period, including the jewels set in the British crown. On this issue, I personally believe that India's approach is the right one. I also believe that China, and all countries that have suffered from colonial aggression and plunder, should recover the looted cultural relics and even make other claims from Western colonialists, which is a kind of historical justice and civilizational justice.

We ourselves often say that we should take the initiative to set issues on the international stage, which is a very appropriate issue, which will be supported by the countries of the Global South and the support of people of insight in Western countries.

The so-called "rules-based international order" proposed by the West is being widely ridiculed as a tool used by the West to maintain its hegemony.

Mr. Chandran Nair pointed out that with the rise of the non-Western world, more countries have joined the distribution of global power, especially China is providing global public goods to the world, from international peacekeeping to climate change, China is playing an increasing role.

In particular, I would like to mention China's Belt and Road Initiative, which is China's largest public good to the world, and this year marks the tenth anniversary of the initiative. As of June 2023, China has signed more than 6 cooperation documents with 152 countries and 32 international organizations to jointly build the Belt and Road, forming more than 200,3000 cooperation projects, with an investment scale of nearly US$1 trillion and a trade volume of more than US$2 trillion. All this has injected important vitality into the global economy, benefiting the people of all countries along the Belt and Road, and at the same time promoting China's own economy towards high-quality development.

Distrust of the Western-dominated international order is also reflected in recent developments. For example, in late July, despite strong opposition from Western countries, 7 African countries sent high-level representatives to the Russia-Africa summit, half of which sent heads of state or government.

More importantly, more than 20 countries are now lining up to apply to join the BRICS organization, and more than 50 heads of state have been invited to the BRICS Summit in South Africa on August 8-22 this year. Brazilian President Lula recently publicly stated that the Western Group of Seven is "outdated" and "should not exist" at all. An important factor behind this is the rise of the overall power of the BRICS countries – in purchasing power parity terms, the BRICS countries' economies today surpass those of the G24, which account for 31.5% of the global economy and the Western G30 7.<>%.

Most countries in the world recognize that the United States and other Western countries are the world's largest sources of unrest, not the forces that maintain peace.

Mr. Chandran Nair pointed out that although the United States portrays itself as the guarantor of global security, most countries in the world believe that the United States today, and to some extent Europe, is driving and profiting from wars around the world, driven by the interests of the West, especially the US military-industrial complex.

The author specifically mentions that the United States spends more on defense than the next ten major countries combined, half of which go into the pockets of private contractors; The U.S. military-industrial complex has also invested heavily in U.S. congressional elections, reflecting institutional, systemic corruption in the United States.

On the contrary, China brokered a historic peace agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iran, raising hopes for more peace throughout the Middle East, an action that was recognized around the world. We have also repeatedly pointed out in this program that the West pursues "divide and rule", messing up the world and profiting from it; China pursues "peace and prosperity", and all countries in the world should devote themselves to unity and cooperation for common development, which is the right way for the world.

Fourth, the financial superstructure of the West is falling off the altar, and the general trend of "de-dollarization" on a global scale is irreversible.

The United States shocked the world by freezing and even confiscating the reserve funds of sovereign countries, from Afghanistan to Venezuela to Russia. Greed in the Western financial sector directly triggered the financial tsunami of 2008, and the recent collapse of the Silicon Valley Bank in the United States made the world no longer trust the Western financial system.

As we have stated many times in this program: the United States "weaponizes" the dollar, making all countries in the world aware of at least three risks - one is the reserve risk, the dollars you deposit in the US bank and the US Treasury bonds purchased by the United States may be seized by the United States; The second is payment risk, the United States can prohibit you from using transnational payment systems at any time; The third is the risk of depreciation, the United States prints money indiscriminately to dilute its debt, and the general view of all countries is that the dollar has entered the channel of long-term depreciation.

The dollar's share of global currency reserves has now fallen from 2001% in 73 to 2022% in 47. Almost all countries are looking for alternatives to the SWIFT system. At the same time, countries with stable currencies like China are growing in influence, and a more diversified international financial order is beginning to emerge.

Fifth, the collapse of the credibility of the Western media.

The author mentions that the Western media continue to criticize China and fabricate many bizarre narratives that China poses a "threat" to Western countries and the world.

The one-sided coverage of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict by the Western media, including the silence on the Nord Stream pipeline bombing, has greatly reduced the credibility of the Western media among the global public, including the Western public. Our program has repeatedly attacked the Western mainstream media's filter coverage of China, especially the big lies about Xinjiang, which has almost lost the credibility of the Western mainstream media in China.

Mr. Chandran Nair finally wrote -

The West should recognize a fact that everyone knows outside of them: the world is no longer the world of the immediate end of the Cold War. The old way of doing things is over, and the West no longer has the kind of political and financial hegemony it once had, let alone legitimacy in the international community. Western countries must adapt to the changing international environment, rather than stubbornly clinging to "business as usual".

To sum up, the five major trends described by Mr. Chandran Nair can be roughly summarized as: 1. Western discourse can no longer fool people; Second, the Western-led international order is dysfunctional; Third, the truth that the West has become the source of turmoil in the world has been clearly seen by all countries; Fourth, the trend of global de-dollarization is difficult to stop; Fifth, the Western mainstream media no longer have credibility to speak of. All this is the point we have made many times in this show: the whole world has entered the era of awakening, into the "post-Western era" and the "post-American era".

The title of Chandran Nair's article uses an English expression called "A long overdue reckoning", and I haven't found a translation of "Sindaya" for a while, but there is a rather expressive and popular expression in the Chinese that may be used here, that is, "you always have to pay it back when you come out to mix". Frankly, the sooner the West realizes this, the better it will be for the West's own interests, and it should recognize the fact that the world has changed and take timely action to correct mistakes and stop losses, otherwise they risk paying an increasingly heavy price.

Wu Xinwen:

Chandran Nair is a man of insight in the West, and the reality that the West needs to face and accept mainly refers to the reality that the West, led by the United States, is relatively declining and its influence is not as good as before. However, this reality of the West corresponds to the reality of today's world, and the two are inseparable. The West's confronting and acceptance of its own reality also means facing and accepting the reality of the whole world.

Today's world has begun to enter a multipolar world from the Cold War pattern in the second half of the twentieth century and the unipolar world after the drastic changes in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, with the rise of China, and the vast number of small and medium-sized countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America eager to be independent and take a development path suited to their own national conditions. Those countries subscribe to genuine multilateralism based on the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and international law, and view the world trend and manage relations between States on that basis. They are unwilling to fall into a "new cold war" and are unwilling to choose sides and engage in camp confrontation.

Under these circumstances, the West continues to uphold the Cold War mentality, the mentality of unipolar hegemony, and engage in unilateralism of self-respect, thinking that by pulling together gangs, fighting against differences and creating chaos, it can isolate and contain opponents, fish in troubled waters and even manipulate world affairs.

Economic globalization has become irreversible, the economies of various countries have me and I have you, the infrastructure of various countries is interconnected, and the global industrial chain and supply chain are deeply integrated. At the same time, the center of gravity of world economic development is shifting from the two coasts of the United States, Europe and the Atlantic to the Asia-Pacific region, and the capitalist economies of the United States and the West have fallen into stagflation or recession, and the scenery is no longer prosperous.

In the face of the general trend of economic globalization and the changes in the world economic map, in an attempt to build a small courtyard high wall in the name of "national security" and "risk removal", engage in "decoupling and breaking the chain", break the contract and withdraw from the group, throw the pot and blame, play the zero-sum game of "I win, you lose", base our own interests on the pain of others, transfer our own problems and crises to others, and deviate from the world trend.

With the in-depth advancement of the fourth industrial revolution and the scientific and technological revolution, the deep integration of networking, informatization and artificial intelligence, the dissemination and application of science and technology are becoming more and more extensive, and the iterative upgrading is gradually accelerating. In the explosive growth of global scientific and technological research and development, if the West clings to the narrow thinking of "only I can have, you can't have", and attempts to monopolize high technology, seize unilateral advantages and excess profits by undermining global scientific research cooperation and hindering scientific and technological exchanges and free trade, it is not only stupid, but also irresponsible, and violates the basic morality that should be followed in scientific and technological development.

In the face of the above realities in today's world, can the West clearly see, consciously accept this reality and change itself?

We can't think too well of the West, thinking that they will find out in good conscience at once. In 1953, after the victory of the War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea, Chairman Mao Zedong once said: "The US imperialists are very arrogant, and wherever they can be unreasonable, they must be unreasonable. Today, seventy years later, the West, led by the United States, still seems to be stuck in this way of thinking and behaving.

So, how can the West see and accept the reality of today's world and force them to make some sense? Since the West believes in a "philosophy of strength" that advocates strength, power, and violence, the non-Western world must deal with them in a way that the West can understand and understand.

First, we must demonstrate the power of development.

The vast number of non-Western circles must clearly see and face the reality that although the West is relatively in decline, it still engages in imperialism, hegemonism, and colonialism in disguise, insist that development is the last word, handle their own affairs well, and constantly enhance their strength in all aspects. In particular, we dare to "do the opposite", embark on a path of modernization different from that of the West, and further promote the multipolarization of the world and the democratization of international relations.

Let the West truly feel that the road to modernization can be successful without relying on slavery, war, plunder, and manipulation of other countries; Without relying on small favors from the West, the vast number of non-Western countries can also achieve their own development. It is also necessary to make the West realize that non-Western countries and nations have awakened and are the main body of independent development, not a tool that the West can arbitrarily dominate, use, oppress and exploit.

Second, it is necessary to unite the strength of unity.

It is necessary to unite all the broad masses of the people in the world who pursue peace, development and progress, including the people of the West, especially people of insight among them, to work together on major issues related to the future and destiny of mankind, speak out collectively, and link up globally, so that the West can truly feel the aspirations of the people and see that the power of the people of the world to pursue peace, development, progress and unity is unstoppable and even more invincible. At present, it is particularly necessary to strengthen solidarity and cooperation among the countries of the "Global South" in the political, economic, military, diplomatic and other fields, so that the West has no opportunity to take advantage of and has no way to start.

Third, it is necessary to stimulate the strength of struggle.

In the face of Western oppression and bullying, the vast number of non-Western countries, especially the global powers or regional powers among them, should not take chances and blindly compromise and retreat on issues of principle related to the country, region and the world, but must adhere to bottom-line thinking, dare to struggle, be good at struggle, and be ready to meet the test of stormy attacks and even stormy waves.

Sometimes, it is necessary to "treat others in their own way" and to counter Western sanctions and provocations with the spirit of struggle of "if anyone offends me, I will offend", so that their gains outweigh their losses, so as to dispel their desire to obtain improper benefits through hegemony and power, and force them to respect the universal aspirations of the people of the world for peace, development and cooperation.

Finally, believe in the power of time.

It has become a habit for the West to go its own way for a long time, to make inches, to seek profit, to bully the weak, to take advantage of the rich and plunder for hundreds of years, and it is unrealistic to hope that the arrogance and prejudice against the non-Western world are deeply rooted. It takes a lot of patience for the West to confront and accept the reality that its own relatively declining and multipolar world is emerging.

However, time is on the side of the vast number of "Global Southern" countries, including China, as long as the "Global South" countries maintain the momentum of development, as long as the people of the world unite and resolutely struggle against all kinds of Western reformed imperialism, hegemonism and colonialism, and through in-depth and sustained efforts, the West will certainly lower its arrogant head in the face of iron reality and begin to make some sense.

Roundtable discussion

Moderator: This scholar's name is Chandran Nair, can you tell us about his academic background?

Teo Weiwei: He is a Malaysian scholar of Indian origin and has done a lot of business. I think what he writes is more down-to-earth, and he sensitively captures the many changes that are taking place in the world.

Moderator: Teacher Zhang said that this scholar is a keen scholar. The Western world does not recognize the changes that have taken place in the current world, nor is it willing to face them, in fact, forward-looking and observant scholars have long seen it, including Chandran Nair. The problem is that scholars may see it one step ahead, but the reaction of politicians, including the people of society as a whole, and their overall understanding are much lagging behind.

Wu Xinwen: Yes, scholars like Chandran Nair in the West have all begun to see the fact that the world has changed, but they are definitely in the minority in the West, and they are often difficult to speak out in the mainstream media, and some people will even be besieged.

Like Jeffrey Sachs, who spoke at a forum about the fact that Chinese cadres are more professional, the moderator wants to grab his microphone and prevent him from talking, especially when he talks about the black history of the West. In Europe, as in Europe, some academics may lose their jobs. Therefore, in the West, especially in the United States, when there is a kind of "anti-China hysteria" and neo-McCarthyism is rampant, I think the existence of these scholars is still very valuable, they are prophets and seers.

Host: We often talk about grasping a thing accurately, objectively and comprehensively, which is some of the words we often use in life and when talking about management ideas. But now when it comes to Western society's understanding of China and non-Western countries, it is indeed not accurate, comprehensive enough, and objective enough. Hopefully, more and more of these scholars' views will emerge to change this, but that change could be very slow.

Zhang Weiwei: This is actually what I mentioned in my speech, and the sooner they realize this understanding, the better, because today's world is really different.

Moderator: Just now you mentioned the five dimensions proposed by Chandran Nair, one is that the "gatekeeper" (of the West) is collapsing, and the other is that the credibility of the Western media is collapsing, because the media is also part of the entire discursive narrative "gatekeeper" in the West. The collapse of these two things is already visible to the non-Western world.

Zhang Weiwei: Yes, frankly speaking, the United States and the West still have "discourse dividends." Their hard power has declined a lot, while its soft power has declined relatively slowly, but it is becoming more and more clearly seen.

Moderator: Their soft power "lingers". So I say it's a tug-of-war, and we're seeing change happening, and the credibility of the narrative system of the Western media is collapsing, but it's not completely broken. At this time, if the non-Western world wants to control its own voice, it needs to take the initiative to set some topics, like you just said that it will fight. So how do you set the issue?

Wu Xinwen: Now I think one of the main problems is that the West's soft and hard power is declining, but it still controls some media, so the Western ruling clique, including its mainstream media, is still creating the illusion that it can control the world. One of the important ways is to say that its "opponent" has many problems. For example, now Biden is talking about China again, saying that our China's economic growth has slowed down, which is a "time bomb" or something.

This is an important way for the West to divert everyone's attention, and this is somewhat misleading to the ordinary people in the West, including some people in the world. Under such circumstances, we ourselves cannot be led by the nose, and we have to set some issues. For example, some of the questions raised by the countries of the Global South now deserve our attention.

Recently, Brazilian President Lula spoke of opposing "green colonialism". What is "green colonialism"? It is that the West is now using environmental protection as an excuse to set up many trade barriers and regulations for economic development in the "Global South" countries. Lula said that we must not only protect the trees, but also protect the people who live under the trees, which is called real environmental protection.

This is completely consistent with the "ecological civilization" we talk about Chinese, "green water and green mountains are gold and silver mountains", you can't fall into an ecological "romanticism", like Westerners say, for example, to maintain the original state of the Amazon rainforest forever, but what about people's right to development and survival? These two have to be balanced. Therefore, how to protect the environment, it is very important to set this topic.

Another teacher Zhang also mentioned in his speech that the United States and Europe plundered a lot of cultural relics from Africa and Asia. This is an important historical record of their colonialism, and we are going to mention something like that now.

Zhang Weiwei: With the rise of China and the rise of the non-Western world, I think these demands need to be made. First, it is morally very correct; Plus, you have the strength to back up. So I think this topic should be set.

This is also to educate the public in the West. Many people in the West do not understand it, thinking that by relying on the so-called democratic system of the West, the West will develop. This is nonsense, they first of all rely on massive plunder. I have roughly calculated that the wealth Britain gained from China during the Opium War was enough to build a complete pension system for England – which it did not do at the time.

Only by doing so can we educate the Western public and make it understand that the West developed by plundering and enslaving others. Where would the West still be modernized today if they had made reparations as demanded by the non-Western world. If we do this, I think people of insight in the West and people of insight in the countries of the South around the world will support it.

Moderator: The case you two mentioned, one is the recourse of cultural relics, and the other is not to use green issues as a threshold to restrict the development of developing countries. What these two words have in common is "plunder", the plunder of artifacts is plunder, and the plundering of resources is plunder, and heavier plunder.

This point of view makes me think that we say that we will achieve carbon peak in 2030 and carbon neutrality in 2060, which is very remarkable. Why? One is in line with our concept of ecological civilization development, and another point is that the West has completed plunder, they have consumed resources almost the same, so they can propose some green (issue) settings, but for the vast number of developing countries, we are still in the process of development, and there is also carbon emissions, and at this time, China, as the largest developing country, bravely put forward a step-by-step concept, which is not only in line with our concept of ecological development, but also enters the leading link of an international issue. I think this is very difficult, we have to look at it from this height.

Wu Xinwen: I saw a material that shows that the total carbon emissions of the world's seven major countries (G2) so far are still 3.<> times that of China.

Moderator: That is, they make this issue, they don't implement it themselves, but use it as a threshold to limit you.

Wu Xinwen: Yes, so we put forward the principle of "common and differentiated" responsibility, that is, we should share responsibility, but the destruction of the ozone layer of the entire earth is the result of the long-term accumulation of your entire Western industrial revolution, and you have to bear responsibility, including moral, economic, and technical responsibility. And the West may have promised money and technology, but now it is often a dead letter.

Host: After the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, there are many voices in Europe who say that our road to green development should also stop, because they know that green development is not reliable when the current energy crisis is severe. So the promise you just said, they can't actually fulfill in the end.

Zhang Weiwei: In fact, the West is quite embarrassed, because Europe is the loudest about environmental protection and green economy, and now not only is the promotion delayed, but they are even going up the mountain to cut firewood - in order to save energy, the people do not care about environmental protection, and many of the promises they have made are difficult to fulfill. Even if it does start to cash in now, they will suddenly realize that China is already ahead in this area, and whether it is solar equipment or wind equipment, it must be imported from China. In the past, they were ahead, now China is leading, and not in general, but far ahead.

Moderator: So you see, we have to take two steps to set the agenda, on the one hand, we must become stronger. Just like the "dual carbon" goal we just mentioned, on the road of ecological civilization development, our own strength should be enhanced, and we must achieve our "dual carbon" goal step by step. Second, in the process, not only do we have to increase our own strength, but we do have to set up issues and tell the story clearly, rather than solving them in the context of the issues set by the West – we answer them in order to provide a higher standard.

Zhang Weiwei: In this regard, I think our relevant departments should boldly think about some forward-looking issues and speak out through different channels. For example, "de-dollarization", this trend is already there, can we assume a proposition that a certain part of Chinese products - such as certain rare earths or solar equipment - can only be purchased in yuan; For example, if 5% of the transaction of our export products is settled in RMB, we can also consider giving certain discounts. Of course, if we really want to do it, we need to conduct more careful research, because after all, we still have a lot of dollar reserves, and our dollar reserves must also be used well.

Moderator: Chandran Nair mentioned five dimensions in his article, so do you think there are anything other than these five dimensions? What else is the trend of the non-Western world and the whole world that the Western world should see?

Zhang Weiwei: Let me give you another example, which is also an article published in the magazine "National Interest", the main tone of which is that the United States is losing the war on science and technology against China.

One of the points I think is tenable, the author said that the United States launched a science and technology war against Huawei, 5G, chips, but the result of the United States has not been achieved, 5G, Huawei continues to develop, and this year Huawei also announced that its mobile phone business will also recover in the second half of the year, which has led to a sharp decline in the stock price of Apple in the United States, an important reason is that Huawei and some of its businesses have not been blocked.

The article also has a core point. After comparing ChatGPT and Huawei's Pangu big data and large model, the author believes that Huawei's Pangu is more powerful, behind it is combined with the most complete manufacturing industry in the Chinese world, and then he came to a conclusion: the United States can no longer compete with China, and he hopes that the United States can see this.

Host: In the area of basic research of artificial intelligence, the United States is still very strong, but in the application link, our application scenarios are extremely rich, our industry is very wide, the field is very wide, and various products of artificial intelligence can find a variety of ports combined with the industry in China. Therefore, in the future imagination and application, China must be much broader than other countries.

Wu Xinwen: There is another theme, "Space Civilization". At the previous stage, NASA's administrator said: "We must not let Chinese be the first to land on the south pole of the moon." "What is the reason? "When Chinese go up, he says, 'This place is mine, no one else can come.'" In fact, I think this just reflects the American thinking, "to live the belly of a gentleman with the heart of a villain."

Including our construction of Zhongshan Station and Great Wall Station in the South Pole of the earth, they are a challenge to the possessive thinking of the West, because China says that Antarctica belongs to all mankind, and these stations built by China in Antarctica, including these explorations on the moon, are open and for all mankind. But if you look at the United States, it has always held an exclusive and possessive thinking, including the construction of the International Space Station, which does not allow us to participate in China.

It's starting to rush now, because our space technology is slowly catching up. The director's remarks now also show that Westerners have seen that in the field of space civilization, perhaps a new practice is being born.

Q&A session

Audience: Everyone knows that the development of human science and technology is inseparable from the mutual exchanges and cooperation between scientists from all over the world, but in recent years, Western countries led by the United States have repeatedly imposed various restrictions and even legal sanctions on scientists or scientific research institutions that have cooperative relations between China and the United States. Will this continue forever? How should we respond to such challenges?

Zhang Weiwei: In fact, the United States is now a soldier, especially when it comes to exchanges and cooperation in science and technology, and it has begun to completely block it - it has come to this point, threatening this exchange with such methods. From what we know, the United States is really very afraid, and it feels that China will also poach a lot of technical knowledge from it, which is its basic judgment. In fact, both China and the United States are in the first square of these high-tech, fourth-industrial revolutions, each other.

In a sense, the contributions of your generation and your predecessors to the cause of Chinese intelligence and to China's scientific and technological cause have made the United States afraid, and they feel that they may not be able to bear to communicate with you again. So I think there's always going to be through this stage, and in some areas, we're actually ahead of it.

You see what Biden announced this time to ban, one is quantum communication, one is artificial intelligence, and the other is semiconductors. When it comes to quantum communications, China is ahead of the United States; In many fields, such as artificial intelligence at the application level, we are also far ahead. Wouldn't it be nice to benefit mankind through exchanges? Now it has become a strategic competition, so that exchanges are suspended, and this may continue for quite a long time.

Let's accept this fact. But you look at Huawei, there has been no communication in recent years, and it still keeps producing results.

Moderator: Yes, I think the example of Huawei you gave is the most illustrative. The United States may use more polarized means to restrict such exchanges in the future, but as we said, "the light boat has passed ten thousand mountains", China's development has China's own logic, and the growth of our talents, including young talents like you, has a very vigorous momentum and cannot be stopped.

Wu Xinwen: Now is an era of informationization and globalization, and many major scientific and technological problems and themes of mankind can be solved faster and pushed forward a little further through joint research and international cooperation. Now the United States can be said to be doing the opposite, moving against the trend of the world. In fact, many people have opinions on the United States.

I think we in China still have to look farther, the United States is building a "small courtyard high wall", we China now have to do the opposite, in the research and development, research and application of many major science and technology, to include other developing countries, open the door to the "Global South" countries and even some countries in Europe. For example, like our space station, let the Europeans in, there is no problem, that is, to let people see that there is a different way from the United States, higher than the realm of the United States, and maybe the effect is better.

Audience: I have recently noticed that some Western media are very keen to pay attention to the soaring military strength of China, and recently the US media has also reported on the ranking of the world's comprehensive naval strength, creating an unstoppable "threat" image of China. So how should we deal with this kind of "killing" and how should we deal with this kind of international public opinion concern?

Zhang Weiwei: I think an important reason why China has made rapid progress in recent years and has completed the path of Western industrialized countries for hundreds of years in the past few decades is that we pay attention to seeking truth from facts. Whatever it says in the West, for example, you just mentioned the US naval report, which says that China's shipbuilding industry has an annual production capacity of 2325.10 million tons, while the United States has less than 232,<> tons, which is almost <> times different. You can verify whether this data is true, if it is true, then it is not "killing", that is a fact, that is, seeking truth from facts. Seeking truth from facts is the most powerful trick, and it has nothing to do with "killing".

Host: Actually, the United States may be worried about the growth of China, especially China's] naval power, because the United States' naval power is very strong, and [China's military growth] will affect its military control over the whole world. In addition, the U.S. military has always practiced exaggerating China's military power so that it can get more budget for itself, or Congress can pass more budgets and get more money to shout.

Wu Xinwen: Whether a country's military is a threat to other countries, I think it depends on two aspects, one is its ability, but more importantly, its will - what is your will to use this ability.

In fact, we in China have made it very clear that we Chinese not fire the first shot, our military strength in China is the force for safeguarding world peace and stability, we do not provoke trouble, we do not stir up trouble, we are not troublemakers, as long as you do not come to invade me, then you do not need to feel that I am a threat to you. Including our nuclear weapons, we are the only nuclear Power in the world that has committed itself not to be the first to use nuclear weapons.

Our intentions have been made clear, so I think many countries in the world will not worry about China's military as a threat, but will worry that the US military is a threat, because it is using force everywhere, and it is driving its warships to our coast of China. This ability of ours is a positive ability, not a destructive force.

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