25th Anniversary of NATO's War on Yugoslavia: Lavrov Interview

Yesterday, 24 March 2024, was the 25th anniversary of NATO’s illegal war on the remnants of Yugoslavia, an event that altered Russia’s course. Many articles were published but overshadowed by the terrorist attack in Moscow. This interview was done by TASS and lasted 32-minutes. For those who know little about this, your knowledge will be greatly expanded, while for those of us who know a lot our knowledge will be deepened. As usual, the emphasis is mine:

Question: Sergei Viktorovich, it has been 25 years since the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia began. Looking back, what did they change about us? What "line" did we cross 25 years ago?

Sergey Lavrov: I remember that period very well. I was working in New York at the time. This topic was vigorously discussed in the UN Security Council. The West has tried in every possible way to justify the actions it has already decided. Western countries have created informational and logical "pretexts" in order to carry out this aggression.

But it should not be forgotten that by that time, in 1999, the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia no longer existed. Its collapse was actively stimulated by the European Union and the Americans. In the wake of the disappearance of the Soviet Union, their task was to break up another major European country so that it would not interfere with their plans for domination and the preservation of American and Western hegemony forever.

In 1991, the EU considered the recognition of Croatia and Slovenia. They were the first to declare independence and ask the West for recognition. It is funny, though sad, that the Germans did not even wait for the discussion of this issue in the European Union and the European Council, but simply recognized them on their own. Since then, they have been actively "patronizing" the entire Balkan "plot," including the countries that "abruptly" seceded from Yugoslavia.

The events we are talking about now have their roots in 1998. I think that since 1991, the collapse of Yugoslavia and the separation of Kosovo from Serbia have been in the West's plans. NATO's aggression dates back to 1998, when the Belgrade authorities controlled the Serbian province. Terrorist attacks began there, and the Kosovo Liberation Army was formed. There is evidence that it was financed and armed by the Americans and Germans, stimulating its activity in every possible way in order to "destabilize" the situation and have a pretext for interference.

At that time, in 1998, they were still trying to "flirt" with us. The West formed a "contact group" that spoke at the UN Security Council. Russia was part of it. The group was designed to calm the situation and find a political solution that would satisfy the aspirations of the Kosovo Albanians. The group's activities led nowhere. Western support for the separatists continued.

The Kosovo Liberation Army, which was created at that time, was actively supported by the Albanian criminals, who were flourishing in Europe at that time. First of all, it included drug trafficking, organ trafficking and other types of organized crime. The money was largely used to strengthen the position of the Kosovo Liberation Army.

In July 1998, the Contact Group formed an observation mission that was used as a cover. At that time, Russia proposed to use not a "secret" agreement, but to appeal to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. This is its mandate, the Balkans is its region, its direct responsibility. In the autumn of 1998, the OSCE Verification Mission in Kosovo was established. It was headed by the American William Walker. It didn't play a decisive role, but it was indicative. This mission did not change anything on earth. Americans, including Robert Holbrooke, who was then the US president's special envoy to the Balkans, came to New York. He worked very actively in the region, supported the Albanians and contributed to the fact that this OSCE Verification Mission was accumulating dirt on the Serbs. R. Holbrooke made it his main, if not the only, task to publicize this compromising material.

Question: The incident in Racak is also included in the incident.

Sergey Lavrov: That was the trigger. On January 15, 1999, there was an uproar that a massacre of civilians of Albanian origin by Serbian security forces had taken place in Racak. The OSCE Verification Mission, headed by American William Walker, rushed there. He did not have any authority to make a statement on behalf of the OSCE. Its only function was to establish facts. Arriving at the site, 15 minutes later, he publicly stated on behalf of the OSCE that the Organization was recording the fact of genocide, a gross violation of international law by the armed forces and security forces of Serbia.

Subsequently, we insisted that an independent commission of pathologists be dispatched. And so it was done. There were Finns working there, who at that time were really neutral and fair in their actions. They established the truth that militants had been killed. Moreover, they died in battle. It was established that they themselves had used firearms in this battle. After their fate, their Albanian "colleagues" dressed them in civilian clothes. This has been established for certain.

Question: And these clothes didn't even have bullet holes on them.

Sergey Lavrov: Of course, they were only on the bodies. The clothes had no such holes.

That was the trigger. The West tried to get approval from the UN Security Council. We didn't allow it, and the Chinese were also against it. After that, the aggression took place.

This sophisticated method of American diplomacy was manifested in the fact that the operation they launched coincided with Yevgeny Primakov's visit to Washington as Prime Minister of the Russian Federation for talks with US Vice President Al Gore. When Yevgeny Primakov's plane had already flown a third of the way, Gore personally called on board and said that they could not wait any longer, that it was necessary to stop the suffering of Kosovo Albanian civilians, and they began the operation, the planes were already in the air.

Everyone remembers Yevgeny Primakov's famous U-turn, but not everyone knows that the decision to bomb Belgrade was made in Washington before its plane took off. Now we know for sure (from the memoirs of some sources) that this was done on purpose – they let it take off to reduce the chances of disrupting the visit. They hoped that Yevgeny Primakov would come and thereby legitimise the actions of the United States and the North Atlantic Alliance. But it wasn't to be.

The U-turn in March 1999 preceded many events that changed our country's foreign policy in essence and symbols.

President of Russia Vladimir Putin said in an interview on March 13 [2024] that he does not trust anyone. He did not come to this conclusion immediately. For a long time, we wanted to believe, we hoped, we signed agreements. Including in July 1999, after the NATO aggression, when they already realized that there were no civilian facilities of any importance left (not to mention military ones). Bridges and a television center were bombed there, and government buildings were destroyed. At that time, the Americans came to the UN Security Council and involved Vyacheslav Chernomyrdin at that time. The Finnish mediator M. Ahtisaari was there. We adopted Resolution 1244. From the very first days of its unanimous adoption, it was sabotaged by the West on almost all key issues on which it was important for the Serbs to get a decision from the Security Council. In particular, the presence of Serbian border guards and customs officers on a certain scale was recorded there.

The experience of our communication with our Western colleagues shows that we have such a tendency to believe to the last ("measure seven times", Emelya will wait for him for a week) and constantly postpone final decisions. Ilya Muromets [click link for explanation] had been lying on the stove for 33 years. After that absolutely treacherous and flagrant violation of all conceivable norms of international law, our patience was maintained according to the principle of "they wait three years for what was promised." But later it turned out that all the promises, which were also recorded "on paper" and in UN Security Council resolutions, were hypocrisy, or even outright lies.

The same is true of the Minsk agreements. Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel and former French President Francois Hollande admitted that they had no intention of doing anything.

Question: Don't you feel the analogy? US President Joe Biden admitted that no one had postponed the decision to bomb. There is a record of him confessing. Don't you think that all the negotiations that took place with the West before March 1999 are the same as the Minsk agreements? No one was going to do anything.

Sergey Lavrov: With regard to the Yugoslav case, the West was not going to be satisfied with anything other than separating Kosovo from Serbia. This is perfectly understandable. At the same time, there was a global goal – to draw the entire Balkans into NATO. Then to the European Union. Because you have to cook longer there. And it is possible to join the North Atlantic Alliance at any time, as the decision to admit the Baltic States showed, which did not meet any criteria, but was accepted on the principle of political expediency.

In February-March 1999, meetings were held in Rambouillet, France, where Serbs and Albanians, with the participation of the United States, France, Germany, and Russia, discussed the possibility of a political settlement. They took place for several weeks, in two rounds. But all the efforts of the Serbs, with our support, to get fair compromises were rejected. In the final declaration, signed by the West and the Kosovo Albanians, it is written that all Serbian structures (police, administrative) are leaving Kosovo in its entirety, and NATO troops are being brought in. And the final point is that the troops stationed in Kosovo have the right to move throughout the territory of Serbia.

A deliberate humiliation, a provocation for the Serbs to refuse. These are all links in the same chain. The Minsk agreements have the same logic from the point of view of Western geopolitical interests.

Question: Your former colleague Karin Kneissl, who was the head of the Austrian Foreign Ministry, says that today the situation is much worse. If then, 25 years ago, there were still serious politicians, now, according to her, they are "teenagers", poorly educated, impudent teenagers who are not at all responsible for their words. Do you agree with that?

Sergey Lavrov: I would not like to get involved in the sphere of personal assessments and perceptions. Western journalists are constantly trying to distort all my statements.

If we compare the generation of politicians of that time, the degree of legend and the current one, then in recent years "teenagers" have also appeared, even in the first roles, as we saw not so long ago. But even politicians of mature biological age do not reach the level of such major figures as Charles de Gaulle, Jacques Chirac, Francois Mitterrand, Helmut Kohl and Gerhard Schroeder. These are people who really thought about the interests of their country, without subordinating them to a single "collective Western" demand, which we are now witnessing everywhere. Europe has completely "fallen" under the United States. There is no autonomy. All the talk of French President Emmanuel Macron over the past few years (and he has periodically "revived" them in the media) about the creation of some kind of "strategic autonomy" has turned out to be zilch (sorry for the everyday expression). No one thinks about it now. Now, despite the fact that Emmanuel Macron insists that it is possible that they will send ground troops to Ukraine, this is no longer about "strategic autonomy", but in order to "please" the United States, at the same time to provoke allies in the North Atlantic Alliance itself.

Politicians of the younger generation also come up with such ideas, for example, in the Baltic countries. In Poland, politicians are mature, but they are also ready to play such a provocative game. In Germany, Chancellor Olaf Scholz is still showing at least some caution. But the provocation of the deployment of NATO troops in Ukraine is aimed, among other things, at undermining its position in the European Union in the context of the Franco-German rivalry. There's a lot going on. Such a quarrelsome organization. It is not the national interests of their peoples and states that are put in the first place, but personal political self-serving plans, aspirations and intrigues. It's sad.

Question: What is your personal attitude to the Serbs, who have been in love with Russia to the point of religiosity all this time? Is there really a lot of pressure going on now because they don't want to join the sanctions against Russia?

Sergey Lavrov: I have a positive attitude towards everyone. I am friends with many Serbs. They truly love Russia and appreciate our common history. They appreciate our role in protecting Serbs from external aggressors in a variety of historical periods.

Perhaps this is not always manifested in the political actions of the Serbian leadership. We understand that. President of Russia Vladimir Putin has repeatedly spoken with President of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić. They talk frankly and discuss any issues. We perfectly understand the position that the President of Serbia is expounding, declaring that the people have made a European, European integration choice. Many years ago, the process of negotiations on Serbia's accession to the European Union began. At this stage, the EU has already become different since Serbia made this choice.

Now the EU is a rather aggressive structure, which, especially with the signing of the relevant document on coordination with NATO not so long ago, has lost its geopolitical independence and has become a military-economic appendage of the North Atlantic Alliance. This was evident even before Finland and Sweden joined the bloc.

When the European Union developed as an integration association designed to maximize the comparative advantages of the member states, to solve economic and social issues in this community more efficiently and rationally, and to create logistical conveniences, all this was absolutely understandable. At that time, we stated loudly and openly that we had no problems with countries joining the EU. In contrast to NATO enlargement.

Over the past few years, long before the special military operation, the European Union has changed. After all, it is not for nothing that the EU is aggressively exerting pressure on Serbia and President Aleksandar Vučić personally, demanding that he, firstly, recognise the independence of Kosovo, and secondly, join the position of the European Union, the position of the West against the Russian Federation, including joining all sanctions. In fact, an ultimatum is being issued. Like, if he doesn't, they tell him, the EU won't continue negotiations. There are several "chapters" in the negotiation process. Some of them are closed. The most important ones remained. The EU does not want to move down this path until Serbia recognizes Kosovo's independence and joins the anti-Russian sanctions.

This topic is well-known in Serbia. We see how the Serbian people react to it. This was especially evident when two Belgrade teams were playing football. Almost the entire stadium (if there were Russian citizens there, then a dozen or a dozen and a half people), tens of thousands came with Serbian and Russian flags, chanting in support of Russia. You can't "bet" it, you can't play it. It is impossible to "break the knee", as the "figures" in Brussels are trying to act with the Serbs.

As for Kosovo. This is yet another example of the second stage of Kosovo's drama and tragedy, which shows the EU's incapacity and inability to negotiate. At some point, more than a decade ago, Belgrade, in good faith, expressed its readiness to accept EU mediation in negotiations with Pristina to work out a compromise formula for coexistence without declaring Kosovo's independence, but with the transfer of a serious degree of autonomy to the Kosovo Albanians. This formula focused on the autonomous rights of the Kosovo province as a whole, but most importantly on the protection of the rights of Serbs who live in Kosovo. In 2014, with the mediation of the European Union, a formula was approved, a document called the Community of Serb Municipalities of Kosovo. This was welcomed by the UN General Assembly. Both Belgrade and Pristina approved it. The European Union "struck the kettledrums" and celebrated a diplomatic victory. It's been eleven years. Nothing was done, because the new authorities came to Pristina and said, "We don't know anything, we don't do anything." No municipalities, no rights for them. The EU, instead of "banging its fist on the table" and insisting at least for the sake of protecting its self-respect, began to look for workarounds. They rewrote not even the proposals, but the already approved document in favor of the Albanians and began to impose it on the Serbs.

There are many parallels today. This is about the same as in February 2014, when President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych and the opposition signed a document guaranteed by France, Germany and Poland, and the next morning the opposition trampled on all this, occupied government buildings and announced the creation of a "government of winners." We appealed to Paris, Berlin and Warsaw. Although neither we nor the Americans were part of this negotiation process, US President Barack Obama called Russian President Vladimir Putin (our President recently recalled this once again) and said that he was aware of Moscow's dissatisfaction with Viktor Yanukovych's agreement to early elections, but asked him to support this compromise. Vladimir Putin replied that if a legitimate president signs an agreement, how can he be against it?

The opposition, stimulated by Brussels, Washington and London, tore up this agreement, which was so advocated by Barack Obama and all other Westerners. We called these capitals and reminded them that they had guaranteed it – early elections, the creation of a government of national accord for five months – and suggested that they bring the opposition to their senses. They "went into the bushes" and said that there are situations when the democratic process takes a bizarre form.

Minsk agreements. It's the same story. The same Germans and French guaranteed them. The UN Security Council approved, as did Resolution 1244 on Kosovo.

Question: It is often said in Belgrade that the war that is currently going on in Ukraine did not begin in 2014, not after the coup. It began in 1999, when the West stopped hiding all its aspirations for aggression.

Sergey Lavrov: This is absolutely in line with our analysis, which President Vladimir Putin has presented more than once in recent weeks, including in an interview with the Rossiya 1 TV channel and the RIA Novosti news agency on March 13.

Hegemons tried to perpetuate their dominance by living at the expense of others. The President uses figurative expressions. He talked about vampires and how they tried to rule the world and live at the expense of others. And they are still trying to preserve this neo-colonial domination in somewhat ennobled forms.

It all started when, after the disappearance of the Soviet Union (let's not talk about the reasons and lament again), the Americans felt that the "field" was completely free, there were no sparring partners left on the other side of the field and everyone had to be lined up in one row. This is the "end of history," the triumph of liberal democracy and liberalism as a way of organizing the life of society.

I am sure that if at that time they did not even think about the need to "take" Serbia and Ukraine, it is a fact that we should not be allowed to become a great power again, but to remain a regional Russian Federation with a huge number of American advisers in our economic, financial and banking structures.

The United States remained one of the two largest, most powerful powers They quickly began to "shift" all their ambitions and luck to practical actions. Yugoslavia and Ukraine are all part of the same series as the subsequent adventures and gross aggressions in Iraq, Libya and Syria, without any international legal basis.

They came to Afghanistan with the "sympathy" of the UN Security Council after the attack on the "twins" on September 11, 2001. No one objected, no one called the deployment of US-led troops in Afghanistan aggression or occupation. Everyone understood that such a terrorist attack had to be held accountable.

Twenty years in Afghanistan have shown that the Americans did not fight any kind of terrorism. They created structures and organisations there, which later turned into al-Qaeda. Then they began to use it to punish and provoke undesirable regimes in the Middle East and other regions.

The conclusion that President Vladimir Putin made in an interview on March 13 that we have already stopped believing is a hard-won one. And just as important. In spite of everything, we are still ready to talk, but honestly, without cheating, with a guarantee and on the basis of the current realities and full consideration of our legitimate interests that we have formulated.

IMO, it will be a long time before honest talks between the Outlaw US Empire and Russia occur as there’s no honest entity in the former. The 13 March interview was mentioned several times. It can be read here. We see the time clock for the beginning of the Outlaw US Empire’s aggression aimed at Russia and the entire world being pushed back to 1999 or even 1991, but many see but a short pause in the Cold War that soon continued in a new manner. I wonder what Lavrov really thinks about 11 September 2001 now that 20+ years have passes and what it enabled is quite clear. Building 7 stood in testimony that the narrative provided was and remains bullshit. But that’s another topic for some other time. Serbia still lives under NATO’s threats. Now that the EU is falling apart Serbs will change their minds about entering a sinking boat. There’ll be more discussion about that as Crooke’s SCF essay has that as its primary focus this week, not Palestine.

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