Grab Bag: Lavrov, Wang Yi & SCO + Putin Interview

Which makes the better header photo? The one above or the one below? Too bad I can’t put them side-by-side.

Initially I was only going to provide what’s been published by Russia’s MFA about Lavrov’s visit to China and the SCO meetings that will follow. Then the release of a previous interview segment by Saida Medvedeva and Pavel Zarubin and aired by the Rossiya TV channel appeared on Russian media websites. So, I decided there was plenty of space to report on all the items involved since no transcript of the interview’s been made available—just a few news snippets. The first item is a PR about the “Upcoming meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation” that contains some important, useful information, which I’ll elaborate upon. Then the various media snippets of the interview will be provided along with my commentary. There are other happenings with the chat between Hedges and Crooke perhaps being the most important. Here’s the PR:

On July 15, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov will take part in a meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) member states in Tianjin, China.

The agenda of the Council of Foreign Ministers includes issues of further development of the organization, exchange of views on current regional and international problems.

China's presidency of the SCO has entered a decisive stage. The Russian side is actively supporting the implementation of a solid action plan. Representatives of our agencies participate in high-level meetings, expert meetings, various forums, seminars and festivals.

Currently, active preparations are underway for the key event – the meeting of the Council of Heads of State (CHS) of the SCO on September 1 in Tianjin. It will be followed by a summit meeting in the SCO Plus format. Representative events with the participation of state leaders, as well as heads of international and regional organizations (about 30 in total) will demonstrate the growing attractiveness of the SCO's creative agenda for the countries of the Global South and East.

The foreign ministers will discuss draft documents and decisions that are planned to be submitted to the leaders for consideration.

Traditionally, the agreed assessments of the SCO member states on the situation in the world and its development trends, as well as consolidated approaches to promoting multifaceted cooperation within the organisation, will be recorded in the Tianjin Declaration.

A common vision for the further evolution of the SCO will be reflected in the Development Strategy until 2035. When preparing the project, the results of the implementation of a similar document, which was adopted at the SCO summit in 2015 in Ufa, were analyzed.

In May of this year, in Moscow, at the invitation of President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin, the leaders and high-ranking representatives of friendly states shared the joy of the 80th anniversary of the Victory of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War. On September 3, in Beijing, the leaders of the SCO member states and other countries will take part in the celebrations on the occasion of the anniversary of the victory of the Chinese people in the War of Resistance to Japanese Aggression.

A common commitment to the memory of the historical feat of our countries in the name of peace and tranquility on earth, the enduring importance of the defeat of fascism, Nazism and militarism by the peoples of peace-loving countries will be emphasized in the relevant statement of the SCO Council of Heads of State on the occasion of the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II and the establishment of the UN.

Relevant ministries and departments are preparing thematic statements and documents on artificial intelligence, green industry, investment cooperation, and the digital economy.

The ministers will discuss the progress of work on the implementation of the Proposals of the Council of Foreign Ministers on improving the activities of the SCO approved at last year's summit. At present, the process of expert consultations has been launched on the draft agreement on the establishment of the Universal Centre for Countering Security Challenges and Threats, prepared by the Russian side together with its Kazakh and Kyrgyz colleagues, as well as the Tajik project on the establishment of the Anti-Drug Centre. Initiatives in other areas are also being worked out. An important step in the context of ensuring security will be the approval at the summit of the Programme of Cooperation in Countering Extremist Ideology in the SCO Space for 2026-2030 (the document was prepared by the SCO Regional Anti-Terrorist Structure).

A discussion on global and regional issues is envisaged. The foreign ministers will exchange views on the situation in the Middle East, the state of affairs after the recent strikes by Israel and the United States on Iran, and will also discuss the tasks of building work in the Afghan direction.

Together with other SCO member states, we intend to use the results of the upcoming high-level events in Tianjin in the substantive content of the meeting of the Council of Heads of Government of the SCO member states, which will be held under the chairmanship of Russia on November 17-18 in Moscow.

It should be noted that the plan of events of the Russian presidency is being actively implemented. An important stage in the preparation of the meeting of the heads of government will be the Meeting of Ministers of the SCO Member States Responsible for Foreign Economic and Foreign Trade Activities, which will be held in September this year in Vladivostok. [My Emphasis]

As you read, I emphasized the topics of the key upcoming meetings, the most important IMO being the ones devoted to security issues. The SCO’s clause about being an Anti-Terrorist and Anti-Extremist organization I’ve highlighted many times and opined when we’d see action taken using that clause as a pretext to deal with the primary sowers of extremism and utilizers of terrorism. It’s that aspect that makes SCO decisively different from BRICS—it has a security/military component that BRICS lacks. That a response is overtly being made with the participation of the SCO’s Central Asian members is significant. You’ll note the Russian delegation will have several days to recuperate from its globetrotting and to engage in more leisurely talks with their Chinese counterparts which will be needed given the subject matter.

The PR dealing with Lavrov’s meeting with Wang Yi contained the usual boilerplate verbiage about good relations and satisfactory discussions. The following three paragraphs IMO merit reproducing and some commentary:

An in-depth exchange of views took place on issues of cooperation within the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Particular attention was paid to the content of the upcoming meeting of the Council of Heads of State of the SCO member states, as well as the summit meeting in the SCO Plus format.

The importance of strengthening close coordination between the two countries in the international arena, including in the UN and its Security Council, the SCO, BRICS, the G20 and APEC, was emphasized.

The parties also discussed relations with the United States and the prospects for resolving the Ukrainian crisis in accordance with the principles of the UN Charter in their entirety, totality and interconnection. Other "hot" topics were touched upon, including the Iranian-Israeli conflict and the situation on the Korean Peninsula. [My Emphasis]

Now more than ever Russia and China must speak with one voice in the international arena. Trump’s Trade and Tariff Wars have opened up some excellent opportunities to alter the geopolitical equation, particularly the Korean, Japan, Chinese situation. It should be noted that the 2025 Eastern Economic Forum will occur at the same time as the Meeting of Ministers of the SCO Member States Responsible for Foreign Economic and Foreign Trade Activities. After spending several days together in Rio for the BRICS Summit, Yi and Lavrov will have had lots of time to deeply review the past and plan for the future. I look forward to the upcoming joint statement.

The headlines and short snippets of information from the release of a previously recorded interview with President Putin leave much to be desired. TASS: “Contradictions between Russia, West arise from geopolitics, Putin believes;” Sputnik International: “Putin Explains What Truly Divided Russia and the West;” RT: “Russia-West clash not about ideology – Putin;” but nothing from Ria Novosti, Izvestia, Kommersant. or the Kremlin website. Why only English language madia and not Russian media? Let’s look at what they report. RT ‘s secondary headline reads, “The standoff is only about geopolitical interests, the Russian president has said,” and here’s its short report:

Western nations’ hegemonic aspirations and dismissal of Russia’s security concerns have led to the ongoing standoff between Moscow and the West, President Vladimir Putin said in an interview released on Sunday. Ideological differences are only a pretext to advance the West’s geopolitical interests, he claimed.

Putin added that he expected the collapse of the USSR to alleviate tensions between Russia and the West.

“I also thought that key disagreements [between us] were ideological in nature,” he stated. “Yet, when the Soviet Union was gone… the dismissive approach to Russia’s strategic interests persisted.”

The president went on to say that his attempts to raise Russia’s concerns with Western leaders were in vain. “The West decided… they do not need to follow the rules when it comes to Russia, which does not have the same power as the USSR.”

All of Moscow’s proposals regarding mutual security, strengthening international stability, and reaching agreements on offensive weapons and missile defense were rejected, Putin said. “It was not just negligence. It was based on a clear desire to reach some geopolitical goals.”

“It has become clear that, unless Russia positions itself as an independent sovereign nation… we will not be reckoned with,” he added.

The Russian president has accused Western nations of betraying Russia and not fulfilling their promises. Last month, he said Moscow was “blatantly lied to” about NATO expansion for decades as the US-led military bloc approached Russia’s borders.

“Everything was good as long as it was against Russia,” he said at the time, adding that Western nations have supported separatism and even terrorism directed against the country.

Moscow has listed Kiev’s NATO ambitions and Western military assistance to Ukraine key reasons behind the Ukraine conflict. Prior to the escalation in early 2022, Russia sought to address its security concerns by seeking guarantees from US and NATO, as well as non-aligned status for Ukraine, which were rejected by the West. [Formatting original]

TASS’s secondary headline: “Britain, France, and other former empires, still blame the dismantling of their colonial might on Russia, the Russian president continued adding that he could still sense this historical negative attitude toward his country.” Its short report:

Contradictions between Russia and the West stem from geopolitics even as it was once believed that the communist ideology of the Soviet Union hampered normal relations, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

"Many believe, and I thought so, too, <…> that contradictions were mostly based on the [Soviet communist] ideology," Putin shared in an interview with VGTRK reporter Pavel Zarubin. However, "disregard for the strategic interests of the Russian Federation has survived" the demise of the Soviet Union, he continued. "And it became obvious to me that the ideology might perhaps play a certain role but that, after all, these contradictions arise from geopolitical interests," the Russian leader concluded.

Meanwhile, Britain, France, and other former empires, still blame the dismantling of their colonial might on Russia, Putin continued adding that he could still sense this historical negative attitude toward his country.

"But the trick is, post WWII, the United States, too, worked with the Soviet Union to demolish those empires, to a certain extent. They worked toward assisting colonies in regaining their independence and sovereignty," the Russian leader explained.

And Sputnik’s short report without any secondary headline:

President Vladimir Putin discussed the roots of the contradictions between the West and Moscow in a previously unpublished segment of an interview for the documentary Russia. Kremlin. Putin. 25 Years by Saida Medvedeva and Pavel Zarubin, aired by the Rossiya TV channel.

Journalist Pavel Zarubin shared the segment on his Telegram channel.

According to Putin, ideology played a role in the emergence of disagreements, but the real foundation was geopolitical:

“It wasn’t just disregard — it was clearly tied to an explicit desire to gain geopolitical advantages.”

Western countries, he said, chose to “live by rules they invented for themselves”:

“The West decided: 'well, the Soviet Union is gone, why should we follow any rules in relation to to Russia, which no longer possesses the potential power the Soviet Union had? Now we’ll just slice things up for ourselves however we want, and live by rules we invented for ourselves, ignoring their interests'.”

Russia, Putin noted, came to understand that it would not be taken seriously until it asserted itself as a sovereign power capable of defending its future.

He also recalled an episode during his time working in St. Petersburg when he refused to engage with a visiting US delegation after one of its members treated a Russian border guard disrespectfully.

Putin emphasized that such behavior was completely unacceptable:

“A man in uniform, while performing his duties, represents the state. To treat him that way is to show contempt for our country.” [Formatting original]

So, what’s the message aimed at us English speakers? The issue isn’t ideology but geopolitics seems to be the main message. I went to Zarubin’s channel and most of the interview snippets are blank with the message “Media Too Big.” But there’s enough from the reports to mount a retort to President Putin saying of course ideology is involved as it’s involved in everything. The current ideology of the Outlaw US Empire is to rule the world through force. Yes, that’s geopolitics too. How about the Nazis; they had/have an ideology that’s very similar and it fueled their geopolitical goal. Now we know the West’s current conflict with Russia predates the Communist Era by 100+ years; so, what was Napoleon’s ideology, and after him we have the English—the Anglo-Saxons. Going back to the Great Schism of 1054 and the conflict it started, ideology was the main culprit, but geopolitics was there too—the Vatican wanted to rule the world and have only one Universal faith, which is what the word Catholic means. Currently we have Financialized Capitalism otherwise known as Neoliberalism; there’s also Zionism. Both claim Exceptionalism and a superiority over all others. Both also have geopolitical goals.

Putin claims Communism’s demise means Russia has no ideology. Well, that issue’s been reported on and discussed here at the Gym several times over the last two years. We see Russia’s political-economic system as a hybrid—Industrial Socialism with Russian Characteristics—that differs in some ways with China’s, although officially the word Industrialism is dropped. Both share a key component: State financed developmental investment and very tight control over the financial system. Both have policies directly aimed at uplifting all citizens at the expense of none. Neither Russia nor China have hegemonic desires; indeed, they aim to halt Western hegemony and thus uplift the Global Majority. Russia and China seek Harmony while the West seeks Chaos. I’d say that’s a rather important ideological divide.

Of course, the person I need to present that and more to is President Putin. I’d be very interested to hear his counter argument.

One final observation. It’s said by the main BRICS promoters that it’s not against the Outlaw US Empire or any other entity. If that’s true, then why is BRICS trying to overcome/circumvent the Empire’s hegemony and chaos, to free its members from the Empire’s shackles? Isn’t wanting freedom ideological? Isn’t wanting Peace instead of War ideological? The UN Charter says all nations are equal and have the same rights; isn’t that ideological? There are several nations/elites who say some humans are superior to other humans; isn’t that ideological? One major religious tract that’s the basis for three religions says all humans were created in the image of their god; now is that an ideology based on fact or a fact that’s been made ideological?

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