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Loam's avatar

When I think of the Western empire, I always think of that movie, Sunset Boulevard, in which a decadent Hollywood star (Gloria Swanson) deliriously approaches the camera, her gaze lost in the past. The others look on condescendingly, knowing that it is all over. The spectacularity of decadence, especially the US decadence, although in some ways fascinating, is still decadence. I believe that Lavrov in particular and Russian diplomacy in general are dealing with this decadence with wise prudence and decisive force.

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Frances Leader's avatar

"People often ask: what will be the international legal basis for multipolarity? There is no need to look for any new principles. All of them are in the UN Charter. The trouble is that our Western partners have never fully respected these principles." ~ Lavrov nails it with this paragraph.

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dornoch altbinhax's avatar

It's always partial focusing on the immediate interest that drives US (and its satellites) interpretations of the UN Charter, resolutions, and International Law that then comprises their "rules based order". This has led to a state of madness from endless exceptions, and exceptions mounted on exceptions which has led to an incomprehensible mess. Isn't this why these "leaders" and spokespersons look so ridiculous?

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Bob marsden's avatar

Outline of the difference between unipolar and mutualist international relations:

Conflict is two parties in win-lose competition with real outcome harmful consequences.

Human social evolution produces games - pretend competition, play-fighting to protect its adolescent typically male mammals from harm and allow them to learn the skills of real fighting.

Constraints on a game are:

I Win=You Lose

●voluntary;

●players may quit play at their choice;

●separate world - rules of play;

●cooperative arena, field of play;

●rules preclude harms; all play is safe by design;

●performances compete through comparative measurement to determine win-lose statuses;

●pretend emergency performances [human emergency modes include extreme performance, escape skills, enhanced quickness, hiding competence]: winning and losing have no real effects outside the game arena;

●players mutually agree within-game arbitrator;

●fair game - equal opportunities for players subject to mutually agreed handicap arrangements;

●players seek delight in emotional and extraordinary experiences;

●players operate safely in various emergency modes;

●teams learn safe social cooperation;

●discursive persuasion produces rhetorical competition, debate, whose results are not mandatory outside the game;

Constraints on fights are:

I Win=You Lose

●participation mandatory;

●real effects of winning and losing;

●unequal opportunities; losers are designated by self-elected winners;

●coercive arena;

●self-elected winners may quit the field of play at their wish; designated loser may not;

●emergency experience may be out of the control of a designated loser;

●one player, or their arbitrator, manages the rules;

●rule change in play prevents win by designated loser;

Rules-based order is an unfair game with real bad consequences for designated losers.

Empires impose mandatory conflictual real competition on their victims - inequality of privilege: the imperial agent is a real winner, vassals are real designated losers.

Vassals are made to fight each other to destruction - divide and rule.

Commercial/economic competition: getting and depriving of goods, whose relative worths are estimated and enforced by the dominant agent in the exchange.

Mutualism: any interaction between sovereign states should be within the constraints of a mutually agreed fair game.

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Fadi Lama's avatar

Quote: "Anyone else find the differences curious?"

Website: "The Symposium is a unique space for dialogue among nations about the future"

Russian version: "One of the central ideas of the forum is a dialogue of civilizations about the future"

Big difference.... nations vs. civilizations!

Whereas multipolar or multi-nodal implies existence of "several significant centers of power", multicivilizational implies respect of other civilizations i.e. of "the other" regardless of demographic, economic or military power. This connects with:

[Whereas it is en vogue to refer to the emerging world as a “Multipolar World”, it would be more accurately described as the “Multicivilizational World”.

Thus, from antiquity until colonialism aka “Age of Discovery” the world was multicivilizational, and the norm was respecting “the other”.

From the ashes of colonialism and neocolonialism the multicivilizational world is reemerging.]

https://fadilama.substack.com/p/the-emerging-multicivilizational

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Karl Sanchez's avatar

Yes, there are several ways to describe what's emerging. Lots of fiction being written today about what Trump will do.

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Fadi Lama's avatar

Only thing Trump can do is add some spice to the show..

At this stage, the decline of the empire is irreversible and cannot be slowed let alone stopped.

It took Iran and China 45 years of hard work to be where they are, Russia had a head start from industry & technology of the USSR, and it still took it some 24 years of hard work.

As I tell my friends: Sit back, relax and enjoy the show :-)

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Ismaele's avatar

It is incredible to find references to multipolarity already in the 1997 agreement between Russian and China! I found this more enlightening and interesting than Lavrov's lengthy speech.

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Karl Sanchez's avatar

Were you able to get to the pdf of the document to read it all?

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Ismaele's avatar

No, I was just referring to the extract you quoted.

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Grasshopper Kaplan's avatar

Russia has already won the US election

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richardstevenhack's avatar

Perhaps the Others will reformulate Humanity...

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Karl Sanchez's avatar

I followed up your comment at Larry's where he replied to your comment.

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richardstevenhack's avatar

I just posted a long comment there challenging him. I'll probably get banned. That's what usually happens. :-)

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