Military Diplomacy: Lavrov on Shoigu & Lavrov's Award

On 21 May, Lavrov was interviewed by Lavrov's by Zvezda TV channel for a documentary dedicated to Sergey Shoigu's 70th birthday using the concept of military diplomacy as the vehicle for the Q&A discourse. At first the concept of military diplomacy seems odd, but it becomes somewhat ordinary as Lavrov details its workings. We do get to learn a little more about Mr. Shoigu and his career. IMO, Lavrov welcomed the break from the constant talk about Ukraine, although there’re several spots where the overall conflict of the Outlaw US Empire versus the world gets addressed. A side note: I do want to promote a video interview provided by uncle tungsten in the comments that examines what lies at the deeper core of the matter. Now here’s Lavrov:

Question: We are used to separating military affairs and diplomatic art. But there is a concept of military diplomacy. And what is it, what does it include and how is it implemented?

Sergey Lavrov: There is a whole profession–-a military diplomat. Most of our embassies have military attachés, who are headed by military attachés. In large allied countries, there are also air attachés, naval attachés, if it is a maritime power. They have employees, deputies, officers who work daily to develop military ties. According to all the laws of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, this structure is part of the embassy.

Therefore, the connection between military and civilian diplomats is not something new. Moreover, with regard to the well-known statement about our allies: the army and navy (now we still have aerospace forces and much more), it is now confirmed that this is an indisputable truth. Because at some stage in the 1990s, it seemed to many of our politicians with certain views that prosperity had come and the factor of power in international affairs had faded into the background or even disappeared altogether. It's not that. We are witnessing this today.

Therefore, combining the efforts of the military in their direct profession, which ensures the security of the Motherland on the battlefield, military diplomats who conduct difficult negotiations with their colleagues, often behind closed doors, and civilian diplomats is the key to success for those states that want to be respected in the international arena, solve their problems, and ensure their legitimate interests.

Question: Can you say what role Sergey Shoigu played in the development of our military diplomacy?

Sergey Lavrov: Sergey Shoigu, when he was Defence Minister, was in active contact with his partners. Of course, the main attention was paid to our CSTO allies and other CIS countries. Regular events were held that received a great response from the Defence Ministry and gained popularity. These include international conferences attended by many dozens of defence ministers or their deputies (80-90). I spoke at each of these conferences. This is a major international event. This is the Army Forum. Of course, it is also an annual military and sports event. Tank biathlon was very popular among many of our partners abroad, including in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Annual exhibitions that attracted a lot of attention. This is all part of military diplomacy–-to show what your army is capable of and how we can pass on this experience on the basis of mutual benefit, on the basis of our allied relations.

Now, when the active phase of the special military operation is underway, this is also a forced opportunity to show what we can do and what we have. As President of Russia Vladimir Putin said, we have been provoked for a very long time, and we have tried to achieve a result that would meet the security interests of all European countries, and we have worked through military diplomacy, among other things, because the talks were held in the format of mixed delegations with the participation of the Foreign Ministry and the Russian Defence Ministry back in December 2021. But they didn't listen to us then. And we realised, as President Vladimir Putin said, that the situation that existed in our leadership, with the hope that the West would still work honestly with us, as it was before February 2022, will not happen again. In February 2022, we finally realized for ourselves that we need to rely only on ourselves.

Of course, the state of the army at that time was decisive for President Putin to make this inevitable decision. As Vladimir Putin recently said in an interview, in 2014 the army was hardly ready for this kind of action.

Therefore, now on the battlefield we are demonstrating what we can do, what we can do, what we have and what we have gained over the years, over the past decades. The interest that our partners show in our achievements shows that they exist–-and quite significant ones.

Question: Can you say something about the role that Mr Shoigu's personality played in establishing contacts with his colleagues from other countries?

Sergey Lavrov: Sergey Shoigu is basically a sociable person and knows how to find an approach. I was not present at his personal talks with the defense ministers for obvious reasons. But for quite a long time we had a "2 + 2" format: foreign ministers and defense ministers. From 2013 to 2021, this format was quite actively used. Together with Sergey Shoigu, we held a dozen such meetings. Among them were Americans, British, Japanese, Italians, Indians, Brazilians, Egyptians. These are the main ones that come to mind now.

This is a rather interesting type of military-diplomatic work. First of all, diplomatic, because we are talking about negotiations. But the heads of foreign and defense ministries speak with a strong military component, discuss issues within the framework of a free discussion. Sergey Shoigu has always shown a deep knowledge of the subject related to the development of the Russian army and the goals set by President Vladimir Putin in his doctrinal documents.

Question: Can you recall the specific talks in this 2+2 format that you found most characteristic, or where Sergei Shoigu's personality manifested itself?

Sergey Lavrov: It was a long time ago, with Western countries. We are somewhere in the United States, Britain, 2013 (in Japan a little later). But something outstanding... You know, our assistants recorded everything on paper. There are reports, many reports.

Question: Let's try to remember the time when he was Minister of Emergency Situations. During the bombing of Yugoslavia, we organised humanitarian aid. At that time, our Emergencies Ministry proved itself strongly. Could you recall your joint work on this issue?

Sergey Lavrov: We began our acquaintance on this basis. In 1999, the West, in violation of all norms of international law, for the first time in post-war Europe, used brute force, including the bombing of civilian targets, against a European state that is an OSCE member. This was a "landmark" crime by our Western colleagues.

Now they are trying to say that for the first time force was used in the OSCE region against Ukraine. They lie. And they know it. There were no threats from Serbia against the West. No one has built any military infrastructures on the borders of Western countries, as the Westerners did right on our borders with Ukraine. Therefore, this is on their conscience.

Then a huge number of refugees immediately appeared. Clouds were gathering over them. It was clear to everyone that NATO would escalate its aggression. The Russian Emergencies Ministry actively assisted in the evacuation of compatriots, our citizens from Serbia, of which there were many. Then they helped to establish the supply of basic humanitarian aid.

At that time, Sergei Shoigu's abilities as a negotiator were in great demand. Evacuation, of course, was carried out by air, and humanitarian aid was also delivered. The airspace over Yugoslavia was under the control of the West, so it was necessary to communicate directly.

We came into contact in absentia when I was Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN in New York, and he was the head of the Russian Emergencies Ministry. At the UN Security Council, we coordinated the necessary decisions to open the airspace for the delivery of humanitarian aid.

The war that lasted for more than 70 days ended with the adoption of Security Council Resolution 1244, which ensured the principles of the settlement. As soon as the West managed to "save face" by ending this war with at least some document, it does not comply with this resolution. It stipulates that Kosovo is part of Serbia, that this country has the right to have its own police and customs officers on the territory of Kosovo. All this is categorically rejected by the West in violation of the decisions of the UN Security Council.

In 2004, the Kosovars, "instigated" by the West, carried out a pogrom against the Serbian population in Kosovo, against Orthodox shrines. A huge wave of refugees appeared again. They were also helped by the Russian Emergencies Ministry, this time delivering not some basic goods necessary for everyday life. There were tents, power plants, water purification devices–-everything that is necessary for the full functioning of a person. In 2008-2011 (I remember when I was already here, working in Moscow) we coordinated from here. There were two other large companies for the delivery of humanitarian aid.

After the Western aggression was over and the status quo was more or less established, the Russian Emergencies Ministry took an active part in the demining programme under the leadership of Sergey Shoigu. It lasted for many years. (I don't even remember now). But they treated more than 5 million square kilometres and removed about 15,000 explosive objects. So this is also a concrete contribution to our cooperation with Serbia in the fight against natural disasters and natural emergencies.

In 2012, on his initiative, the Russian-Serbian Humanitarian Centre was established in the city of Nis, which is still functioning. Russian and Serbian rescuers are stationed there. Its services in the event of natural disasters, especially in the event of fires, which occur in Europe every summer, are in great demand.

Question: This hospital was quickly set up and then handed over.

But Serbia is still a close and fraternal people, but they did not live in the same territory with us. There were also conflicts in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, where Sergey Shoigu also served as a negotiator. How difficult do you think it was for him and how difficult a task it was?

Sergey Lavrova: This is a very difficult task. I cannot say how difficult it was for him, because he coped with these tasks.

As for South Ossetia and Abkhazia (in 1992-1993), special negotiation mechanisms were created. As for South Ossetia, there was a mixed control commission, co-chaired by Sergey Shoigu. In the case of Abkhazia, a joint commission. He was also a co-chair there.

Peacekeepers were deployed in South Ossetia. In general, they were also formally and actually within the framework of his mandate. Peacekeepers from Russia, Georgia and South Ossetia, one battalion each, served with varying success, but on the whole ensured relative calm. It was undermined by the aggression against South Ossetia unleashed by Mikhail Saakashvili in 2008, when his NATO members reassured him that he would definitely become a member of the North Atlantic Alliance. So he lost his mind.

Sergei Shoigu combined the functions of a rescuer, a humanitarian aid deliverer and a negotiator in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. He had personal relations with the leaders who decided to promote the ideas of independence in those years. These initiatives did not enjoy broad support among the peoples of these now independent republics.

Question: A parade of sovereignties was being implemented.

Moving on to our time and the Security Council of the Russian Federation. What areas of foreign policy of our Security Council can be called a priority? What role do the personal qualities of Sergei Shoigu play in them?

Sergey Lavrov: The President of the Russian Federation determines the areas of activity of the Security Council. There are no main or secondary areas. This is a comprehensive approach to all aspects that ensure security, primarily in the context of protecting the interests of the individual, society and the state from any external and internal threats.

For obvious reasons, special attention was paid to internal threats in the first years of Vladimir Putin's presidency, given the state of Russia at that time and the illusory hopes associated with the "benefits" of the civilised world into which we were admitted. But at this stage, when Russia has already internally resolved the problems of its unity, when the people (with the exception of those who are now far abroad) have fully supported the policy of returning to our roots, traditions, and strengthening the unity of all the peoples of our multi-ethnic country, we have begun to pose risks to Western domination. Given what has been happening over the past decades, objectively, external threats to us now pose a great danger to us, because the West has set out to remove a competitor that has become stronger internally.

But the West, as always, does not look far ahead. The West could not have foreseen (although it was supposed to know the history and qualities of our people) that turning Russia into an object of a hybrid war in the hope of destroying our country would only strengthen the state and society, which is what happened. As they say, they do not want to learn from their mistakes. Moreover, once again an openly Nazi threat is being put forward against us, under Nazi banners, and again almost all of Europe has been "built" in order to "defeat" us.

Therefore, the Security Council deals with all issues. The person who is the Secretary of the Security Council, and under whom the Security Council apparatus works, carries out direct instructions from the President, who, in turn, assesses how these people do their work.

Question: What personal qualities of Mr Shoigu are most clearly manifested there?

Sergey Lavrov: Mr Shoigu is one of the longest-serving statesmen, without any exaggeration. He has been holding government posts since 1990. Therefore, he has no lack of qualities. He has vast experience in peacekeeping (which we talked about in the South Caucasus), in military affairs and military development, as well as in construction in general. Because he is also a builder by vocation, in the broadest sense of the word. This experience, coupled with a large number of issues that he resolved on the world stage as part of international military cooperation, is important for the clear and impeccable performance of the functions arising from this position. This is one of the main positions in our country in implementing the President's decisions on both domestic and international affairs.

Question: Do established personal relations with foreign partners, contacts, sympathies, and mutual understanding matter?

Sergey Lavrov: Perhaps this has some significance for them. For us, the main thing is that we state our position clearly for them, that this really ensures an understanding of our interests as we see them.

The ability to clearly state what we want, to do it politely and intelligibly is a feature of any politician. Here you don't even need to talk separately about diplomats, military or civilian. This is a trait without which a politician will not be successful.

Question: Together with Sergey Shoigu, you have been responsible for the most important areas of our state's activities. In general, is it possible to "cover" the scale of topics that fall within the competence and responsibility of Sergey Shoigu?

Sergey Lavrov: I have just said that the area of competence of the Security Council, headed by the President, and, accordingly, the instruction and guide to action for the Secretary and his staff, is to safeguard the interests and protect the individual, society and the state from all internal and external threats. This is determined by the President, not by me.

Question: How would you personally define or continue the series: is Sergey Shoigu an official, politician, builder or what?

Sergey Lavrov: We have just talked about this. He is a military leader, a statesman, a builder, of course, and a rescuer. At one time, he built the Ministry of Emergency Situations from scratch. And a military diplomat. I told you how we worked together in military and civil diplomacy. He is a versatile, well-educated man with good ambitions.

Question: There is such a manifestation of people's love. T-shirts and toys (they can be ordered and purchased) with the inscription "Whoever does not want to talk to Lavrov will have to deal with Shoigu" are very popular. How would you explain the fact that the people's consciousness unites you all the time, that you appear in tandem?

Sergey Lavrov: I don't know. We don't get paid for these T-shirts. And we don't want to be paid for it.

It's nice to be honest when people recognise you and support you. I think the explanation here lies in what we have already discussed, namely, that after we restored the unity of the country, it began to develop rapidly. The West increasingly perceived a strong Russia as a threat. A strong army and a tough but clear foreign policy came to the fore. This is just how history decreed.

Question: You have already said that you first began working together with Sergey Shoigu during the resolution of the Yugoslav conflict. When and under what circumstances did you meet in person for the first time? What impression did he make on you?

Sergey Lavrov: Sergey Shoigu once came to New York when I was working there. They landed in the evening. We (the delegation and my deputies) had dinner with them, got to know each other, talked and outlined plans for the future. That's how we met. Since then, either by phone or through coded correspondence. Later, when I returned to Moscow, we personally and closely cooperated in a variety of areas.

In New York, at the end of my stay, there was another topical topic where our Emergencies Ministry was involved, and that was Iraq. Before the Americans and the British prepared their aggression, there was an oil-for-food scheme from the late 1990s to early 2003. Since Iraq was under sanctions, in order to prevent the population from suffering too much (there was a complete ban on the purchase of Iraqi oil), a scheme was invented whereby Iraq was allowed to sell a certain amount of oil under international control, and food was delivered there. Our Emergencies Ministry also took part in this food delivery scheme. So we crossed paths in many places. And since I came to work in the Russian Federation, by decision of President of Russia Vladimir Putin, we communicate almost every day.

Question: In your opinion, what human qualities (I would like to dwell on them in more detail) of Sergey Shoigu help him to carry out the most important tasks of our state for so long?

Sergey Lavrov: I have already talked about this. He has vast experience, outlook, willpower, the ability to build a team and lead it firmly in order to achieve results.

At the same time, we have many opportunities (and they remain) to spend our free time together with our friends, doing sports. I play football, he plays hockey.

Sergey Shoigu is involved in many issues related to public duties, including the Russian Geographical Society, to which he devotes a lot of time and effort, including the creation of a television channel and other forms of promoting our country. All this came to the nail on the head when the COVID-19 pandemic began. Then there were the sanctions and the suspension of air traffic with Western countries. Look at the explosive growth of domestic tourism. This interest is not disappearing. In many ways, this is the result of the popularisation that the Russian Geographical Society has carried out and is conducting.

The combination of all these professional and human qualities helps in working in any area, which is now demonstrated to us by Sergey Shoigu. [My Emphasis]

An interesting assessment of a figure who doesn’t commend much media attention any longer. The Lavrov-Shoigu shirts don’t have the same impact as they once did. Of course, the one area of Shoigu’s past that wasn’t deeply examined was his role as Defense Minister, and I assume part of that would be classified. I’d be interested to read what Medvedev, Naryshkin and Patrushev have to say about Shoigu. Despite his closeness to Putin, I doubt he’d be awarded the same accolade as Lavrov was today.

Today the annual State Awards Ceremony was held in Catherine Hall. Many in comments here have noted the superior level of diplomacy practiced by Sergei Lavrov over his many years of service. This was recognized formally today:

The Order of St. Andrew the First-Called was awarded to Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Here’s what Putin said in his presentation narrative:

The talent, knowledge, experience and intellect of the chief diplomat of Russia Sergey Viktorovich Lavrov have earned him unconditional respect both in our country and around the world, both among friends and, as we sometimes say, among the so-called geopolitical opponents. And this recognition is based on his devotion to Russia, his readiness to firmly defend its interests in any situation. Long colossal in volume and complexity, intense work for the benefit of Fatherland. Sergey Viktorovich was awarded one of our highest awards - the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called.

Here’s what Mr. Lavrov said after the award:

Sergey Lavrov: Mr President,

It is a great honour for me to receive this award from your hands, and to hear the words with which you preceded it. I do not want to sound formal, but I will say from the bottom of my heart that I perceive your decision as an assessment of the work of our entire team to implement the tasks that you set in the foreign policy area. And I have no doubt that today's event with the presentation of this order will inspire all my comrades to continue active work, taking into account the increased demands that have arisen in the international arena, where, without exaggeration, there is a struggle between good and evil.

Thank you again.

In the past, I’ve reported on this event. This year I’ve confined my reporting to Lavrov’s award, although I did browse all the photos and watched the video portion of Lavrov’s presentation and the awarding of the first Hero of Russia to a woman serving in the SMO, a front-line medic who presented herself as a shield to protect the wounded in her care while being shelled with cluster munitions. All that can be reached via the above link.

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