Two wrongs don't make a right. Might does not make right. The ends do not justify the means.
Time to grow up, grow a set of balls and act as enlightened, serious members of the human race to stop the needless slaughter of innocents and create a sovereign Palestinian state. Hamas loses its funding and raison d'etre when Palestinians are free. The October 7 perpetrators can be identified and rounded up for justice in the future, as can the Zionist war criminals.
Yes, I know I'm a hopelessly naive optimist. But I believe in God's love for all his children.
Did Hamas actually break any laws? The right to resist occupation exists. If they fought soldiers and Zionist terrorists, were those acts illegal? There are testimonies that the Zionists killed their own people a la 911 to make it look like Hamas did those deeds. And then there's the policy of killing people so they won't be taken prisoner a la the Ukraine Nazis. And of course, there are the many years of continual terror waged by the Zionists on the Palestinians with political cover provided by the Outlaw US Empire. There was the reminder that violence begets violence, and we know which group in this long-running instance that cast the first stone.
No one really knows the truth due to deliberate obfuscation - standard propaganda and misdirection is the fog of war.
That's why we should defer judgment until an investigation occurs, facts are assembled and examined by others in appropriate courts of law.
I insist we give peace a chance. Everything else that has been tried has demonstrably failed, in Palestine (and the Donbas).
Maybe the UN should assemble international forces and conduct a Responsibility to Protect (R2P) operation in both Israel and Gaza to stop the bombing and enforce a ceasefire?
Are there no honest brokers and diplomats in the West willing to step up and be like Abigail to counsel Israel to foresake vengeance and be merciful because they are great like David?
David had the wisdom and humility to listen, decide against violence and thank Abigail for taking the risk to plead for peace with him.
1 Samuel 25:33
“And blessed be thy advice, and blessed be thou, which hast kept me this day from coming to shed blood, and from avenging myself with mine own hand.”
And Jesus said blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth; blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy; blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
The problem with a UN R2P is it must be sanctioned by the Security Council without any veto, and that won't happen because there're "no honest brokers and diplomats in the West" on that Council.
At the time of 9/11 (2001), I was living in Brooklyn next to the East River and had a “ringside seat” to the demolition of the WTC Twin Towers. A few days later my partner and I took the L train subway to 14thSt - Union Sq. Park (at the boundary of where ordinary citizens were permitted to go). It was filled with makeshift shrines, candles, flowers and countless photos of missing loved ones. Many posters, mostly calling for peace, love and understanding and a few calling for retribution (“kick their ass and take their gas!” was memorable...). One poster that moved us both deeply said “seek to understand the desperation that drives people to terrorism” (to the best of my memory- we were both kicking ourselves for not bringing a camera). Wise words indeed!Also, the wisdom of John and Yoko - “War is Over. IF you want it.”
It's a beautiful thing that such a meeting took place, even if all the participants were not as skillful as might be wished. Putin himself does set a standard that's maybe hard to meet, eh? Thanks for putting this up.
The terrorism label is hard to push back on. We want to be quick to condemn that, to be on the "peaceful" side, but it's been 75 years. We talk about the children. Were it not for this event, for the "terrorism", would those children be condemned to live for another 75 years under the occupation? (And one might argue if that were a "best" or "worse" case outcome.)
When does doing nothing, when does suffering the abuse, forcing ones and others to suffer the abuse, when does that become worse than fighting back? Bear in mind that legally, an occupied people can fight back. There is a reason international law reccognizes that right. Humans will and do abuse each other terribly unless at least some learn to stand up. This is, frankly, the dilemma in the US itself now. For our failure to stand up to stop the carnage "our" leaders wreak worldwide destroys us as well. Sure, most of us can't see it because we are so manipulated by the deep state - the demons. The oppressor's role is every bit as damaging as the oppressed; this war, as all others do, comes home.
Even the Buddha knew when to kill someone. Arjuna - with Kirshna's help - brought down an entire empire because his family was wronged and oppressed. Look at Nelson Mandela and the ANC, John Brown, the list is endless. History, after all, is one violent event after another.
My understanding: the Vedas note that all those that perished at Kurukshetra were immediately liberated - both sides. Those who fought with Krishna as well as those that fought against him. And Krishna himself received a fatal curse.
The events of Oct 7 upset the table. How the world responds is what matters and the world responds according to how we approach it.
Yeah, I would have loved to hear what some of the other leaders said!
🇨🇳China voted against the UN Security Council Draft Resolution on the 🇵🇸Palestinian-🇮🇱Israeli conflict!
Why?
Ambassador @ChinaAmbUN's answer is BASED!👇
◾️China is by no means indifferent to the sufferings of the people in Gaza. What China opposes is that the draft resolution selectively avoids referring to the root causes of the current humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and fails to urge Israel to lift its full siege on Gaza and to rescind the evacuation order for northern Gaza. Such an evasive and ineffectual approach will only accelerate Gaza’s falling into an even greater humanitarian catastrophe.
◾️China is by no means denying Israel's security concerns. On the contrary, China has always strongly advocated that equal attention should be paid to the security concerns and legitimate rights of both Israel and Palestine. What China opposes is that the draft resolution attempts to establish a new narrative on the Palestinian question, ignoring the fact that the Palestinian territory has been occupied for a long time and evading the fundamental issue of independent statehood for the Palestinian people. It is worth being vigilant that the draft departs from the spirit of previous UN resolutions and embeds the dangerous logic of the clash of civilizations and the justification of war and use of force.
◾️China is by no means indifferent to acts that harm civilians. What China opposes is that the draft resolution does not call on the parties concerned to stop the indiscriminate and asymmetrical use of force, nor does it call for a thorough investigation into the heinous attacks such as the one on the Al-Ahli Hospital. Such selective application of international law and double standards will only push more innocent civilians to the brink of death.
In terms of the content, the draft is seriously out of balance and confuses right and wrong.
◾️China is by no means opposing the Council taking action. What China opposes is that the draft resolution is evasive on the most urgent issue of ending the hostility. It has never been able to call for an immediate ceasefire in clear and unambiguous terms. If a Council resolution is ambiguous on the question of war and peace and of life and death, it is not only irresponsible but also extremely dangerous.
In terms of the approach, the draft was introduced in haste and lacked the consensus it deserved.
In terms of the effect, the draft does not reflect the world’s strongest calls for a ceasefire and an end to the fighting, and it does not help resolve the issue.
Thanks very much for providing this crucial information. Unfortunately, the Outlaw US Empire will continually veto any UNSC Resolution that's balanced and correctly accuses the Zionists for causing the event.
Putin intentionally being soft on Israel. Putin understands American intentions for Israel and the Middle East region. Putin understands Iran's calculations of developments in Syria, in Iraq and Israel Arab normalization. Putin understands as does Iran and the Shiite and Sunni Clerics intentions of reestablishing a unified Muslim order free of zionism and western intrusion and freeing the Palestinian peoples from Zionest colonialism expansion. Putin and Iran understands the very real possibility of colonial war and their obligations to the UN and to each obligations under the Russian Iranian security pack. Putins posturing of neutrality is of a geopolitical strategic nature of which as events unfold will no doubt change.
Oct 27, 2023·edited Oct 27, 2023Liked by Karl Sanchez
I think Putin (along with Xi) are positioning themselves (indeed have already done so to a great extent with recent BRICS+ expansion and conferences) as the parties best able to help negotiate settlement of this long-standing conflict which has destabilized the Middle East for the past century. Meanwhile the US is being drawn in on one side, nixing their ability to play any such a role. The Hegemon role is no more.
The multipolarists now have both the moral high ground and the strategic upper hand.
With or without Russia and China's backing, what has been missing all this time is a more or less united Middle East, one of the world's great civilizational zones. I believe only they can find a solution to the Israel problem in their midst, one of whose long-festering aspects has been the absence of properly constituted States with borders (not to mention that they voted against the UN Resolutions creating Israel). I gather that not only Palestine but also Syria and Lebanon were also not clearly delineated. These things have to be sorted, not by the US or UN but mainly by the regional States themselves by multilateral Agreements. Hopefully Russia and China will continue to help build this mutual solidarity at the diplomatic level so that the Region can emerge with enough consensus and authority to provide a thorough and workable solution.
If this type of Regional Solidarity indeed transpires, then the US will no longer be able to meddle in this region a continent and ocean away. Just as Europe needs to cut such dependencies, so also does Israel and all other Middle Eastern States. Again the key is the Middle Eastern States themselves stepping up and together.
Meanwhile, Russia and China must remain above the fray to help with the final settlement.
Strangely, this feels similar to the SMO in February 2022. By early March it became clear that Russia had essentially won already, not so much tactically on the ground but geopolitically once she didn't fall down like a deck of cards in the face of the West's sanctions onslaught. ('what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.') Similarly, Russia and China have already emerged as the strong, stable hand; as long as they don't enter the fray on the ground, it is hard to see this being reversed in any way. Times have changed.
Yes. I await the Global Majority's subscribing to China's Global Security Initiative which when combined with the geoeconomic initiatives will force the hand of all NATO nations. The pressure's already being applied but needs to be given time to work.
Oct 26, 2023·edited Oct 26, 2023Liked by Karl Sanchez
Thank you for posting this.
My two cents:
Rather than going back and forth about the rights and wrongs, terrorists versus resistance fighter and suchlike, let us consider how to go forward.
First the background: this problem hasn't been solved since the Zionist project took formal shape after the Balfour Declaration over a century ago. Resolutions at the fledgling U.N. in 1947 gave color of law to the creation of the State of Israel and Palestine without quite actually doing so. Clear borders were never established. The Palestinians never organized formal Statehood with government, military and so forth. In short, it's been an unholy mess since the get-go in the erstwhile Holy Land. With all that as a given, again how to go forward:
As you point out karlof1, it looks like the only suggestion forthcoming thus far is to back to hammering away at the UNSC, an improperly constituted body for this issue (if not all global security issues, but that's another question). How best to approach the UNSC?
I believe that more preparation needs to be done - or hopefully is being done behind the scenes, namely:
Specific proposals need to be offered principally by the main regional actors. This would ideally include Israel but this is likely impossible at the current time. However, everybody else can come up with a clear formulation of what they would like to see transpire. I'll offer an example of what they might propose (or demand):
1. Formulate clear territorial boundaries for Israel, Palestine, Syria and Lebanon (and any other States that never got properly defined after WW II or whenever on Churchill's infamous knapkin). If this is deemed premature, then propose to set up a Council which determines such boundaries until such time as they are agreed upon. All nations will have an equal say. However, if one nation (for example Israel) never agrees to the wishes of the other regional States, a Plenary Council will have to determine the outcome and bind all others to it. The thrust here being that a way must be found to determine clear borders.
2. Propose to establish a military force comprised of several leading regional states with established militaries, a regional equivalent of a U.N. peacekeeping force, the most obvious candidates being:
Turkey,
Iran,
Saudi Arabia,
Egypt.
They will commit to manning the borders along with overseeing that any necessary resettlement is conducted peacefully. (All such resettlement will be into the existing Region, not to All Over the World.)
3. This Regional Enforcement Group will commit to guaranteeing and enforcing peaceful coexistence between the States for a period of at least three, possibly many more, years.
4. Israel must commit in writing to remain within the stipulated borders and renounce, also in writing, any further Great Israel expansion. The Regional Enforcement Authority will commit troops to countering any incursions by any party on any other party.
5. The US agrees to provide no further funding by American taxpayers to non-American citizens in Israel. All other major powers agree to the same. Each State in the region must be self-sufficient.
6. A mediation Council will be set up with representatives from all States in the Middle East region and with none from outside that region (such as US, UK, China, Russia).
7. The US must relinquish all military bases within 3 months of the Treaty/Declaration being signed.
8. Optional extra: also formulate proposals - as complete and succinct as possible - to reconfigure the United Nations. There should be no Security Council whatsoever. All security issues should be worked out between States on a sovereign basis, State to State. The role of the General Assembly can be expanded somewhat now that the Security Council is no more but perhaps it should mainly be a forum for sharing vision and mutual good will, rather than any sort of Executive body.
A Grand Treaty detailing the final terms will be signed by all Parties and published to the World at Large, at first in a full session of the United Nations General Assembly.
===========================================
I believe unless and until they move beyond vague platitudes and aspirations that nothing will ever be resolved. To this end they have to start making specific proposals which, after consultation, are published to the world at large versus always remaining behind closed doors.
Agreed mostly as I've alluded to the big error was made long ago and like a festering sore has never healed and 7 October is a direct result of that. Somehow, the Zionists must be forced to retreat and abandon their project. Unfortunately, they are extreme zealots far more dangerous than any other group of actors beside s ISIS and its master the Outlaw US Empire. You'll have noted that Putin said those zealots don't want peace but continuing chaos from which they can profit. Kirill introduced the Manichean aspect that's so hard to avoid--who's the genuine Evil? I'm willing to name it but what about the actors that matter?
As I replied to james, this discussion, abridged as it is, must be spread far and wide so millions of people can read it and learn.
Oct 26, 2023·edited Oct 26, 2023Liked by Karl Sanchez
thanks karl..
i take it the first commentary after putin is from the orthodox christian leader - Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, but it doesn't say that clearly at the beginning, as opposed to the rest of the article which clearly articulates who is talking.. i seem to have a problem with fundamentalism or orthodoxy.. this quote from patriarch kirill is an example of my problem.. "The territory of Palestine and Israel is a Holy Land where the most important events of world history took place, and above all directly related to the communion of God and man." the whole world is holy to those who are whole... there is no one place that stands out as more special then any other...
back to the article... i don't have a problem with the way putin has articulated all this.. you are right, the terrorism has been going on from both sides for much longer then oct 7th, but the oct 7th is the latest flair and he is trying to address that as diplomatically as possible.. he doesn't let anyone off the hook with regard to what is happening here, and as you note towards the end by re-emphasizing his commentary, there are world forces using this division to try to sow more division whether it is taking down russia, or anywhere in the world... so i give him a pass on this.
i would have liked to hear/read what the buddhist leader had to say.. oh well..
i have to compliment russia on their diligence in having these types of meetings with religious and political leaders and in them sharing publicly what was said.. that is more then we can say for the west to my knowledge..
i don't have a sanguine attitude about where all this is headed, but the article does give some confidence that there are good people in the world who know what we have to transcend to get on a higher level on more then a few ways... thanks again..
I would have liked to have more time to critique, but my responsibilities related to my travel made me rush the product. And I needed to post Lavrov's important address. I agree with most of your comment. And there are many more as I requested. What's very important is for this meeting to be shared far and wide.
Oct 26, 2023·edited Oct 26, 2023Liked by Karl Sanchez
Putin is sounding weak on the events in Palestine. He hesitates to condemn Israeli terrorism, both now and for the last 75 years, and he appears to continue the worn-out embrace of the so-called “two-state solution.” One democratic secular state is the only way out; the two-state solution can’t work. Putin may not want war right now with Israel, but he needs to condemn the slaughter in Gaza.
Yes, agreed, but there's more within his overall statement that IMO amended that "softness." It's a very narrow fence Russia balances itself on in that region. Personally, I'd like to know what other regional leaders think of Putin's words, but I doubt I'll ever discover them.
This is the second time I have been disappointed with VVP.
The first time was when he agreed to allow the NAZI terrorists attacking the Donbass to escape the cauldron they were in last decade and not going in 'boots and all'.
China has a different position in this case as it doesn't have several million of its citizens living in Palestine. Global Times wrote a very sharp editorial aimed at the Outlaw US Empire here, https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202310/1300518.shtml
Response to Karl Sanchez' "Very Important: Putin's Meeting with Russia's Religious Leaders"
#Israel #Palestine
The only way the Israel-Palestine situation gets fixed is if the international community - led by the military superpowers (by which I mean Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, etc.) - FORCE the two sides to sit down and negotiate. OR, preferably, enable the UN to resolve the issue as I have advocated before, i.e., reverse the decision to recognize the "state of Israel", craft a new bi-national state with a new Constitution, and hold new elections sidelining the fanatics on both sides.
But this can only be done through military and economic force: an air and naval blockade of Israel, a no-fly zone over Israel, a forced disarmament of Israel's nuclear weapons, and other measures until Israel surrenders.
As for the Palestinians, they get told to turn over the people who organized and conducted the October 7 civilian attacks on pain of being invaded not by Israel but by an international UN force composed of Russian, Chinese, Indian, whoever forces. while at the same time being told Israel will be disarmed, removed as a state, and Palestine will return to its original borders. Even if Hamas doesn't agree, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank will force them to, given the benefits they will receive by doing so.
Of course, NONE of this is going to happen because the US neocons won't allow it. So instead we're going to get WWIII. There's really no point of discussing anything more. This is where the world is as a result of its mistakes for the last 70-100 years - if not thousands - and there IS NO solution as a result.
And those religious leaders Putin is talking to represent precisely the problem.
Do watch the new Crooke/Napolitano where he expands on his latest SCF essay. The Zionists, Nazis, and their #1 enabler must all be stopped/defeated. Reality is pointing its finger that that's the only way as force is the only language they understand and the only politics they'll bow to.
I just heard Crooke say two more carrier battle groups are on their way. I said somewhere that the US needed another carrier to be a credible threat to Iran. As one of the analysts said, I forget who, they need three carrier groups to be able to conduct 24/7 operations.
So here we go. WWIII is now guaranteed. The only remaining question is whether Russia gets involved, because that will determine whether nukes get used by either side. It's probable that Israel will use nukes on Iran once Iran starts delivering major damage to Israel and that is likely to trigger a Russian response.
I've said in the past that Iran probably wouldn't do that much damage to Israel due to the need to expend most of its missile arsenal against US assets in the region. But that was predicated on the idea that Hezbollah would have already been taken out (if that was possible) BEFORE the Iran war started. Apparently, that won't be the case. And if Iran and Hezbollah attack Israel at the same time, it won't matter if Iran has to husband its missiles - Hezbollah will take up any slack.
Get the popcorn: Israel is going down, one way or the other.
Putin conducted the nuclear systems test prior to his meeting with Russia's religious leaders, which I saw as symbolic. I hope to get home before the shooting begins since that will be a safer location than here in Knoxville.
Occupy peace. Justify love. Transcend historical grievances.
Remember our lessons from childhood:
Two wrongs don't make a right. Might does not make right. The ends do not justify the means.
Time to grow up, grow a set of balls and act as enlightened, serious members of the human race to stop the needless slaughter of innocents and create a sovereign Palestinian state. Hamas loses its funding and raison d'etre when Palestinians are free. The October 7 perpetrators can be identified and rounded up for justice in the future, as can the Zionist war criminals.
Yes, I know I'm a hopelessly naive optimist. But I believe in God's love for all his children.
Did Hamas actually break any laws? The right to resist occupation exists. If they fought soldiers and Zionist terrorists, were those acts illegal? There are testimonies that the Zionists killed their own people a la 911 to make it look like Hamas did those deeds. And then there's the policy of killing people so they won't be taken prisoner a la the Ukraine Nazis. And of course, there are the many years of continual terror waged by the Zionists on the Palestinians with political cover provided by the Outlaw US Empire. There was the reminder that violence begets violence, and we know which group in this long-running instance that cast the first stone.
I agree with you completely.
No one really knows the truth due to deliberate obfuscation - standard propaganda and misdirection is the fog of war.
That's why we should defer judgment until an investigation occurs, facts are assembled and examined by others in appropriate courts of law.
I insist we give peace a chance. Everything else that has been tried has demonstrably failed, in Palestine (and the Donbas).
Maybe the UN should assemble international forces and conduct a Responsibility to Protect (R2P) operation in both Israel and Gaza to stop the bombing and enforce a ceasefire?
Are there no honest brokers and diplomats in the West willing to step up and be like Abigail to counsel Israel to foresake vengeance and be merciful because they are great like David?
David had the wisdom and humility to listen, decide against violence and thank Abigail for taking the risk to plead for peace with him.
1 Samuel 25:33
“And blessed be thy advice, and blessed be thou, which hast kept me this day from coming to shed blood, and from avenging myself with mine own hand.”
And Jesus said blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth; blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy; blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
The problem with a UN R2P is it must be sanctioned by the Security Council without any veto, and that won't happen because there're "no honest brokers and diplomats in the West" on that Council.
Belief Begets Reality, dear optimist!
At the time of 9/11 (2001), I was living in Brooklyn next to the East River and had a “ringside seat” to the demolition of the WTC Twin Towers. A few days later my partner and I took the L train subway to 14thSt - Union Sq. Park (at the boundary of where ordinary citizens were permitted to go). It was filled with makeshift shrines, candles, flowers and countless photos of missing loved ones. Many posters, mostly calling for peace, love and understanding and a few calling for retribution (“kick their ass and take their gas!” was memorable...). One poster that moved us both deeply said “seek to understand the desperation that drives people to terrorism” (to the best of my memory- we were both kicking ourselves for not bringing a camera). Wise words indeed!Also, the wisdom of John and Yoko - “War is Over. IF you want it.”
Peacenlovenlight to all-
It's a beautiful thing that such a meeting took place, even if all the participants were not as skillful as might be wished. Putin himself does set a standard that's maybe hard to meet, eh? Thanks for putting this up.
The terrorism label is hard to push back on. We want to be quick to condemn that, to be on the "peaceful" side, but it's been 75 years. We talk about the children. Were it not for this event, for the "terrorism", would those children be condemned to live for another 75 years under the occupation? (And one might argue if that were a "best" or "worse" case outcome.)
When does doing nothing, when does suffering the abuse, forcing ones and others to suffer the abuse, when does that become worse than fighting back? Bear in mind that legally, an occupied people can fight back. There is a reason international law reccognizes that right. Humans will and do abuse each other terribly unless at least some learn to stand up. This is, frankly, the dilemma in the US itself now. For our failure to stand up to stop the carnage "our" leaders wreak worldwide destroys us as well. Sure, most of us can't see it because we are so manipulated by the deep state - the demons. The oppressor's role is every bit as damaging as the oppressed; this war, as all others do, comes home.
Even the Buddha knew when to kill someone. Arjuna - with Kirshna's help - brought down an entire empire because his family was wronged and oppressed. Look at Nelson Mandela and the ANC, John Brown, the list is endless. History, after all, is one violent event after another.
My understanding: the Vedas note that all those that perished at Kurukshetra were immediately liberated - both sides. Those who fought with Krishna as well as those that fought against him. And Krishna himself received a fatal curse.
The events of Oct 7 upset the table. How the world responds is what matters and the world responds according to how we approach it.
Yeah, I would have loved to hear what some of the other leaders said!
Thanks for your well thought review!
China's position is very clear.
----------
From friend and journalist JingJing Li:
🇨🇳China voted against the UN Security Council Draft Resolution on the 🇵🇸Palestinian-🇮🇱Israeli conflict!
Why?
Ambassador @ChinaAmbUN's answer is BASED!👇
◾️China is by no means indifferent to the sufferings of the people in Gaza. What China opposes is that the draft resolution selectively avoids referring to the root causes of the current humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and fails to urge Israel to lift its full siege on Gaza and to rescind the evacuation order for northern Gaza. Such an evasive and ineffectual approach will only accelerate Gaza’s falling into an even greater humanitarian catastrophe.
◾️China is by no means denying Israel's security concerns. On the contrary, China has always strongly advocated that equal attention should be paid to the security concerns and legitimate rights of both Israel and Palestine. What China opposes is that the draft resolution attempts to establish a new narrative on the Palestinian question, ignoring the fact that the Palestinian territory has been occupied for a long time and evading the fundamental issue of independent statehood for the Palestinian people. It is worth being vigilant that the draft departs from the spirit of previous UN resolutions and embeds the dangerous logic of the clash of civilizations and the justification of war and use of force.
◾️China is by no means indifferent to acts that harm civilians. What China opposes is that the draft resolution does not call on the parties concerned to stop the indiscriminate and asymmetrical use of force, nor does it call for a thorough investigation into the heinous attacks such as the one on the Al-Ahli Hospital. Such selective application of international law and double standards will only push more innocent civilians to the brink of death.
In terms of the content, the draft is seriously out of balance and confuses right and wrong.
◾️China is by no means opposing the Council taking action. What China opposes is that the draft resolution is evasive on the most urgent issue of ending the hostility. It has never been able to call for an immediate ceasefire in clear and unambiguous terms. If a Council resolution is ambiguous on the question of war and peace and of life and death, it is not only irresponsible but also extremely dangerous.
In terms of the approach, the draft was introduced in haste and lacked the consensus it deserved.
In terms of the effect, the draft does not reflect the world’s strongest calls for a ceasefire and an end to the fighting, and it does not help resolve the issue.
That's why China vetoed it!
https://t.me/dannyhaiphong/1065
Thanks very much for providing this crucial information. Unfortunately, the Outlaw US Empire will continually veto any UNSC Resolution that's balanced and correctly accuses the Zionists for causing the event.
Putin intentionally being soft on Israel. Putin understands American intentions for Israel and the Middle East region. Putin understands Iran's calculations of developments in Syria, in Iraq and Israel Arab normalization. Putin understands as does Iran and the Shiite and Sunni Clerics intentions of reestablishing a unified Muslim order free of zionism and western intrusion and freeing the Palestinian peoples from Zionest colonialism expansion. Putin and Iran understands the very real possibility of colonial war and their obligations to the UN and to each obligations under the Russian Iranian security pack. Putins posturing of neutrality is of a geopolitical strategic nature of which as events unfold will no doubt change.
Yes, that's one way to appraise what's happening. Thanks!
I think Putin (along with Xi) are positioning themselves (indeed have already done so to a great extent with recent BRICS+ expansion and conferences) as the parties best able to help negotiate settlement of this long-standing conflict which has destabilized the Middle East for the past century. Meanwhile the US is being drawn in on one side, nixing their ability to play any such a role. The Hegemon role is no more.
The multipolarists now have both the moral high ground and the strategic upper hand.
With or without Russia and China's backing, what has been missing all this time is a more or less united Middle East, one of the world's great civilizational zones. I believe only they can find a solution to the Israel problem in their midst, one of whose long-festering aspects has been the absence of properly constituted States with borders (not to mention that they voted against the UN Resolutions creating Israel). I gather that not only Palestine but also Syria and Lebanon were also not clearly delineated. These things have to be sorted, not by the US or UN but mainly by the regional States themselves by multilateral Agreements. Hopefully Russia and China will continue to help build this mutual solidarity at the diplomatic level so that the Region can emerge with enough consensus and authority to provide a thorough and workable solution.
If this type of Regional Solidarity indeed transpires, then the US will no longer be able to meddle in this region a continent and ocean away. Just as Europe needs to cut such dependencies, so also does Israel and all other Middle Eastern States. Again the key is the Middle Eastern States themselves stepping up and together.
Meanwhile, Russia and China must remain above the fray to help with the final settlement.
Strangely, this feels similar to the SMO in February 2022. By early March it became clear that Russia had essentially won already, not so much tactically on the ground but geopolitically once she didn't fall down like a deck of cards in the face of the West's sanctions onslaught. ('what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.') Similarly, Russia and China have already emerged as the strong, stable hand; as long as they don't enter the fray on the ground, it is hard to see this being reversed in any way. Times have changed.
Yes. I await the Global Majority's subscribing to China's Global Security Initiative which when combined with the geoeconomic initiatives will force the hand of all NATO nations. The pressure's already being applied but needs to be given time to work.
Yes and yes. I believe and hope what you outlined to be the correct approach taking shape.Thank you!
Thank you for posting this.
My two cents:
Rather than going back and forth about the rights and wrongs, terrorists versus resistance fighter and suchlike, let us consider how to go forward.
First the background: this problem hasn't been solved since the Zionist project took formal shape after the Balfour Declaration over a century ago. Resolutions at the fledgling U.N. in 1947 gave color of law to the creation of the State of Israel and Palestine without quite actually doing so. Clear borders were never established. The Palestinians never organized formal Statehood with government, military and so forth. In short, it's been an unholy mess since the get-go in the erstwhile Holy Land. With all that as a given, again how to go forward:
As you point out karlof1, it looks like the only suggestion forthcoming thus far is to back to hammering away at the UNSC, an improperly constituted body for this issue (if not all global security issues, but that's another question). How best to approach the UNSC?
I believe that more preparation needs to be done - or hopefully is being done behind the scenes, namely:
Specific proposals need to be offered principally by the main regional actors. This would ideally include Israel but this is likely impossible at the current time. However, everybody else can come up with a clear formulation of what they would like to see transpire. I'll offer an example of what they might propose (or demand):
1. Formulate clear territorial boundaries for Israel, Palestine, Syria and Lebanon (and any other States that never got properly defined after WW II or whenever on Churchill's infamous knapkin). If this is deemed premature, then propose to set up a Council which determines such boundaries until such time as they are agreed upon. All nations will have an equal say. However, if one nation (for example Israel) never agrees to the wishes of the other regional States, a Plenary Council will have to determine the outcome and bind all others to it. The thrust here being that a way must be found to determine clear borders.
2. Propose to establish a military force comprised of several leading regional states with established militaries, a regional equivalent of a U.N. peacekeeping force, the most obvious candidates being:
Turkey,
Iran,
Saudi Arabia,
Egypt.
They will commit to manning the borders along with overseeing that any necessary resettlement is conducted peacefully. (All such resettlement will be into the existing Region, not to All Over the World.)
3. This Regional Enforcement Group will commit to guaranteeing and enforcing peaceful coexistence between the States for a period of at least three, possibly many more, years.
4. Israel must commit in writing to remain within the stipulated borders and renounce, also in writing, any further Great Israel expansion. The Regional Enforcement Authority will commit troops to countering any incursions by any party on any other party.
5. The US agrees to provide no further funding by American taxpayers to non-American citizens in Israel. All other major powers agree to the same. Each State in the region must be self-sufficient.
6. A mediation Council will be set up with representatives from all States in the Middle East region and with none from outside that region (such as US, UK, China, Russia).
7. The US must relinquish all military bases within 3 months of the Treaty/Declaration being signed.
8. Optional extra: also formulate proposals - as complete and succinct as possible - to reconfigure the United Nations. There should be no Security Council whatsoever. All security issues should be worked out between States on a sovereign basis, State to State. The role of the General Assembly can be expanded somewhat now that the Security Council is no more but perhaps it should mainly be a forum for sharing vision and mutual good will, rather than any sort of Executive body.
A Grand Treaty detailing the final terms will be signed by all Parties and published to the World at Large, at first in a full session of the United Nations General Assembly.
===========================================
I believe unless and until they move beyond vague platitudes and aspirations that nothing will ever be resolved. To this end they have to start making specific proposals which, after consultation, are published to the world at large versus always remaining behind closed doors.
Agreed mostly as I've alluded to the big error was made long ago and like a festering sore has never healed and 7 October is a direct result of that. Somehow, the Zionists must be forced to retreat and abandon their project. Unfortunately, they are extreme zealots far more dangerous than any other group of actors beside s ISIS and its master the Outlaw US Empire. You'll have noted that Putin said those zealots don't want peace but continuing chaos from which they can profit. Kirill introduced the Manichean aspect that's so hard to avoid--who's the genuine Evil? I'm willing to name it but what about the actors that matter?
As I replied to james, this discussion, abridged as it is, must be spread far and wide so millions of people can read it and learn.
thanks karl..
i take it the first commentary after putin is from the orthodox christian leader - Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, but it doesn't say that clearly at the beginning, as opposed to the rest of the article which clearly articulates who is talking.. i seem to have a problem with fundamentalism or orthodoxy.. this quote from patriarch kirill is an example of my problem.. "The territory of Palestine and Israel is a Holy Land where the most important events of world history took place, and above all directly related to the communion of God and man." the whole world is holy to those who are whole... there is no one place that stands out as more special then any other...
back to the article... i don't have a problem with the way putin has articulated all this.. you are right, the terrorism has been going on from both sides for much longer then oct 7th, but the oct 7th is the latest flair and he is trying to address that as diplomatically as possible.. he doesn't let anyone off the hook with regard to what is happening here, and as you note towards the end by re-emphasizing his commentary, there are world forces using this division to try to sow more division whether it is taking down russia, or anywhere in the world... so i give him a pass on this.
i would have liked to hear/read what the buddhist leader had to say.. oh well..
i have to compliment russia on their diligence in having these types of meetings with religious and political leaders and in them sharing publicly what was said.. that is more then we can say for the west to my knowledge..
i don't have a sanguine attitude about where all this is headed, but the article does give some confidence that there are good people in the world who know what we have to transcend to get on a higher level on more then a few ways... thanks again..
I would have liked to have more time to critique, but my responsibilities related to my travel made me rush the product. And I needed to post Lavrov's important address. I agree with most of your comment. And there are many more as I requested. What's very important is for this meeting to be shared far and wide.
thanks karl.. i have shared it.. i agree with you on that!
Putin is sounding weak on the events in Palestine. He hesitates to condemn Israeli terrorism, both now and for the last 75 years, and he appears to continue the worn-out embrace of the so-called “two-state solution.” One democratic secular state is the only way out; the two-state solution can’t work. Putin may not want war right now with Israel, but he needs to condemn the slaughter in Gaza.
Yes, agreed, but there's more within his overall statement that IMO amended that "softness." It's a very narrow fence Russia balances itself on in that region. Personally, I'd like to know what other regional leaders think of Putin's words, but I doubt I'll ever discover them.
This is the second time I have been disappointed with VVP.
The first time was when he agreed to allow the NAZI terrorists attacking the Donbass to escape the cauldron they were in last decade and not going in 'boots and all'.
I see that Putin is still very much into his Love-Love relationship with Israel.
China's Wang Yi is much clear on Israel's collective punishment on Palestinian civilians as illegal, regardless of what Hamas did.
China has a different position in this case as it doesn't have several million of its citizens living in Palestine. Global Times wrote a very sharp editorial aimed at the Outlaw US Empire here, https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202310/1300518.shtml
Response to Karl Sanchez' "Very Important: Putin's Meeting with Russia's Religious Leaders"
#Israel #Palestine
The only way the Israel-Palestine situation gets fixed is if the international community - led by the military superpowers (by which I mean Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, etc.) - FORCE the two sides to sit down and negotiate. OR, preferably, enable the UN to resolve the issue as I have advocated before, i.e., reverse the decision to recognize the "state of Israel", craft a new bi-national state with a new Constitution, and hold new elections sidelining the fanatics on both sides.
But this can only be done through military and economic force: an air and naval blockade of Israel, a no-fly zone over Israel, a forced disarmament of Israel's nuclear weapons, and other measures until Israel surrenders.
As for the Palestinians, they get told to turn over the people who organized and conducted the October 7 civilian attacks on pain of being invaded not by Israel but by an international UN force composed of Russian, Chinese, Indian, whoever forces. while at the same time being told Israel will be disarmed, removed as a state, and Palestine will return to its original borders. Even if Hamas doesn't agree, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank will force them to, given the benefits they will receive by doing so.
Of course, NONE of this is going to happen because the US neocons won't allow it. So instead we're going to get WWIII. There's really no point of discussing anything more. This is where the world is as a result of its mistakes for the last 70-100 years - if not thousands - and there IS NO solution as a result.
And those religious leaders Putin is talking to represent precisely the problem.
Do watch the new Crooke/Napolitano where he expands on his latest SCF essay. The Zionists, Nazis, and their #1 enabler must all be stopped/defeated. Reality is pointing its finger that that's the only way as force is the only language they understand and the only politics they'll bow to.
I just heard Crooke say two more carrier battle groups are on their way. I said somewhere that the US needed another carrier to be a credible threat to Iran. As one of the analysts said, I forget who, they need three carrier groups to be able to conduct 24/7 operations.
So here we go. WWIII is now guaranteed. The only remaining question is whether Russia gets involved, because that will determine whether nukes get used by either side. It's probable that Israel will use nukes on Iran once Iran starts delivering major damage to Israel and that is likely to trigger a Russian response.
I've said in the past that Iran probably wouldn't do that much damage to Israel due to the need to expend most of its missile arsenal against US assets in the region. But that was predicated on the idea that Hezbollah would have already been taken out (if that was possible) BEFORE the Iran war started. Apparently, that won't be the case. And if Iran and Hezbollah attack Israel at the same time, it won't matter if Iran has to husband its missiles - Hezbollah will take up any slack.
Get the popcorn: Israel is going down, one way or the other.
Putin conducted the nuclear systems test prior to his meeting with Russia's religious leaders, which I saw as symbolic. I hope to get home before the shooting begins since that will be a safer location than here in Knoxville.
As it happens, I'm looking at it right now as I type this.