I’ve written very little about the on-the-ground conflict in Ukraine leaving that part to writers like Simplicius who concentrate on that aspect, but this new contraption that’s appeared as an excellent field expedient has motivated me to do this short essay. At the conflict’s outset, it was clear that a new combat paradigm would emerge related to drones of all types and their eventual abilities to select their own targets instead of being flown 100% of the time by a dedicated operator along with other uses related to supply, mine clearance and evacuation of wounded. Initially, field expedients to deal with what are called First Person View (FPV) drones were the erection of crude cages (cope cages) over the tops of all sorts of AFVs that provide a modicum of protection but not complete. AFV roofs are usually very thin armor-wise and thus a prime target site along with the rear deck just aft of the turret, and a great number of AFVs on both sides have been killed by hits in those places. Various Electronic Warfare (EW) instruments meant to disrupt FPVs have been tried, but none has proven 100% effective as there’s a tech race between EW devices and unjammable drone guidance systems usually employing some sort of Artificial Intelligence (AI). FPV drones are armed with various munitions depending on the amount of weight they can carry that range from the basic hand grenade to artillery shell warheads with a plethora that fit in between. Commenting elsewhere back in 2022, I advocated for some sort of armored umbrella/canopy which is what the cope cages mimic. But that wasn’t good enough, so some Russian tanker or field engineer decided to go further.
Why? Almost every modern car has cameras and monitors for movement backwards and overview around. Few hundred bucks to install them on a tank. The tank could be even remote controlled, just for mine clearing and forcing ATGM teams (etc.) to open fire and lose cover. Or driven by the mekhvod (mechanic-driver) alone.
My appraisal was done after watching the turtle tank try to maneuver in several videos. And given the fact that most space inside the cabin is already crammed with monitors and controls, there's probably little room for any sort of camera monitor.
Tank drivers have a narrow field of view anyway, and possibly a backup camera. Probably no change to that. The commander's vision on the other hand, is sacrificed here.
The US no longer produces Abrams? The Tata in the UK closing Port Talbot -what of steel production in the UK? I found it hard to believe the claims that NASA had lost the ability to make Saturn "moon rockets", but recall that when projects end blue prints/schematics can be "lost". Digital data formats change and stored tapes/disks become unreadable. Without an appropriate schedule of keeping the data alive it can become unavailable.
The combined west has operated consumer driven economies since WWII and jettisoned the idea of a "mixed" economy with government led interventions/directions for a neoliberal model putting profits at the top of priorities. We are now living with the consequences of a "5000 Years of Debt" based financial system; institutionalised corruption and decline.
And then there's the obsession with the new next great thing; let's start again with a clean slate.
And lastly there's a lot to be said about the stability of teams; people with experience are retiring or were laid off. As I've said elsewhere; the first rule of Italian driving, "what's behind me is not important." Good luck to the next generation.
One novelty is adding protection for the all-important tracks, at least from drones bearing RPG warheads. If I had to guess, I'd think a radical redesign of tank tracks will happen sooner or later, with much heavier tracks and side armor built into them to protect the wheels too. Another is making it harder for machine-vision to home in on specific weak points on the tank.
I've now seen several makeshifts, but none as robust as Turtle Tank. FPV drones are a bane for both sides and will be for any army. The new EW suite atop Turtle is said to work well which is why we see Turtle convoy 3-4 BMPs with it as the EW action has 1-200m range that also protects them. I recall the first Ironclads and the Turtle reminds me of them. Tracks and road wheels will always be a tank's weak point. We'll know what higher level commanders think of Turtle tanks if we see more of them being deployed in assaults.
in the picture you share- yes, the vision seems impaired.. i saw one on telegram earlier today that appearing to be wire mesh, instead of what your picture shows... i can't find it though as it appears the post was taken down.. i plead ignorance when it comes to the on ground details of these means of attack... it seems the drone technology has really advanced and because it is so cheap relatively speaking, i foresee this will continue into the future... war will continue to increasingly be like some video battle game.. that is how it is playing out presently..
What you saw was a "cope cage" which have been around since last year and don't protect the aft portion of the AFV's hull. I've seen videos of Lancets completely avoiding them to hit the tank where the turret meets the hull. Drones fitted with 122mm mortar shells hitting that same area are often capable of disabling a tank's engine. or worse. I often see the top commander's hatch left open where a grenade exploding inside the hull can kill most of the crew and perhaps detonate ammo. And then there're various types of carapaces; the one I display is clearly a very hardtop, while the one shown at the outset of the latest History Legends video is a soft-top by comparison, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDfkwlMaK7g
History Legends has shown the devastating results of Ukie FPV attacks on attacking Russian AFVs in several installments over the past months, whereas at MoA we almost always got the pro-Russian POV, and rarely any negative videos. I highly suggest watching the Chasiv Yar program then the current one I linked to above.
thanks... if i find that video on telegram, i will share it.. i am not sure it is the cope cage.. i think it is something different, but i could be wrong..
The SMO has provided a workshop for Santa Shoigu and his elves.
"the driver’s vision is very limited"
Why? Almost every modern car has cameras and monitors for movement backwards and overview around. Few hundred bucks to install them on a tank. The tank could be even remote controlled, just for mine clearing and forcing ATGM teams (etc.) to open fire and lose cover. Or driven by the mekhvod (mechanic-driver) alone.
My appraisal was done after watching the turtle tank try to maneuver in several videos. And given the fact that most space inside the cabin is already crammed with monitors and controls, there's probably little room for any sort of camera monitor.
Tank drivers have a narrow field of view anyway, and possibly a backup camera. Probably no change to that. The commander's vision on the other hand, is sacrificed here.
I'm thinking that they could get communication via drone operators. At some point drones could transmit to a crew/operator within the tank/IFV.
That already happens--netcentric combat.
The US no longer produces Abrams? The Tata in the UK closing Port Talbot -what of steel production in the UK? I found it hard to believe the claims that NASA had lost the ability to make Saturn "moon rockets", but recall that when projects end blue prints/schematics can be "lost". Digital data formats change and stored tapes/disks become unreadable. Without an appropriate schedule of keeping the data alive it can become unavailable.
The combined west has operated consumer driven economies since WWII and jettisoned the idea of a "mixed" economy with government led interventions/directions for a neoliberal model putting profits at the top of priorities. We are now living with the consequences of a "5000 Years of Debt" based financial system; institutionalised corruption and decline.
And then there's the obsession with the new next great thing; let's start again with a clean slate.
And lastly there's a lot to be said about the stability of teams; people with experience are retiring or were laid off. As I've said elsewhere; the first rule of Italian driving, "what's behind me is not important." Good luck to the next generation.
IMO, the next generations will do well, but they won't be Western.
Go turtle tank!!
One novelty is adding protection for the all-important tracks, at least from drones bearing RPG warheads. If I had to guess, I'd think a radical redesign of tank tracks will happen sooner or later, with much heavier tracks and side armor built into them to protect the wheels too. Another is making it harder for machine-vision to home in on specific weak points on the tank.
I've now seen several makeshifts, but none as robust as Turtle Tank. FPV drones are a bane for both sides and will be for any army. The new EW suite atop Turtle is said to work well which is why we see Turtle convoy 3-4 BMPs with it as the EW action has 1-200m range that also protects them. I recall the first Ironclads and the Turtle reminds me of them. Tracks and road wheels will always be a tank's weak point. We'll know what higher level commanders think of Turtle tanks if we see more of them being deployed in assaults.
in the picture you share- yes, the vision seems impaired.. i saw one on telegram earlier today that appearing to be wire mesh, instead of what your picture shows... i can't find it though as it appears the post was taken down.. i plead ignorance when it comes to the on ground details of these means of attack... it seems the drone technology has really advanced and because it is so cheap relatively speaking, i foresee this will continue into the future... war will continue to increasingly be like some video battle game.. that is how it is playing out presently..
What you saw was a "cope cage" which have been around since last year and don't protect the aft portion of the AFV's hull. I've seen videos of Lancets completely avoiding them to hit the tank where the turret meets the hull. Drones fitted with 122mm mortar shells hitting that same area are often capable of disabling a tank's engine. or worse. I often see the top commander's hatch left open where a grenade exploding inside the hull can kill most of the crew and perhaps detonate ammo. And then there're various types of carapaces; the one I display is clearly a very hardtop, while the one shown at the outset of the latest History Legends video is a soft-top by comparison, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDfkwlMaK7g
History Legends has shown the devastating results of Ukie FPV attacks on attacking Russian AFVs in several installments over the past months, whereas at MoA we almost always got the pro-Russian POV, and rarely any negative videos. I highly suggest watching the Chasiv Yar program then the current one I linked to above.
thanks... if i find that video on telegram, i will share it.. i am not sure it is the cope cage.. i think it is something different, but i could be wrong..
also i see awful avalanche has a 3 part series on drones for anyone interested..
https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com/