Israel can say that Hamas is out to destroy them thus they must continue genocide
the problem for the Zionists is that the world sees what is going on and since they will fail at their goal of complete eradication, there will come a negotiated settlement
the longer this continues and the more bodies including UN staff and journalists, the level of hatred for the Zionists and the state of Israel
and as the power of the US empire continues to decline with the decline accelerated by participating with genocide
and the rest of the world looks on in horror and seek out other arrangements like BRICS and NAM (see Karlof''s earlier substack) and many other cooperative organizations
and as Scott Ritter said in a recent interview, in the 1980's the US military could fight 2 and 1/2 wars while today they could not fight one
and all the while Michael Hudson's work: live by finance, die by finance -- when the big financial crash comes, Russia is self sufficient but the US, and our lap dogs will crash
Israel, like the US, are attempting a holding action as the ground has shifted and their hand holds are either failing already, or on a path to fail
The West is making the transition to a multi polar world as painful as possible
"..a slow decline is also typical", yes, as is sudden collapse. The "empire" is so obsessed with retaining control it can't imagine or create a positive future, just more of the same. The USSR collapse was long talked about, but surprise, it happened.
This seems to be a conundrum....I do not think I would even think it a year ago, but the only way is the way of South Africa. One state. Can it be done? That is really the question, isn’t it.
I don't recall the Afrikaner's policy being as harsh as the Zionists, meaning black South Africans weren't filled with as much hate and desire for vengeance, so living together was possible, although changes in the wealth and class structure needed to be done and still remain incomplete. The problem I see is the Zionist public being mostly in favor of Genocide. Their minds are as polluted as those who support Kiev and NATO. They all need to be deprogrammed from their extremism.
"We" definitely subjugated the Black Nation - killed, tortured and unfairly imprisoned them, gave them Black Label beer and Coca-Cola. Townships were poor but not bombed. After all, they were needed as the cheap labour class. Israel is infinitely worse, so for them to pretend it's not Apartheid is painfully laughable.
Yes, Europe was poisoned in the same way which is why the nation states were mostly homogeneous until very recently and are now having trouble assimilating all the immigrants.
I am not so sure if European nation states were homogenous. Certainly not the ones in Central and Eastern Europe. After all, as Benedict Anderson written about the idea of a nation to be an imagined community created for capitalism to have centralised language market seems to have a possibility not to be a poisoned community. Sadly, historical development went the way you described.
The term Balkanization has much meaning--fragmenting ethnic groups into small mostly homogenous groups/nations so they could easily be controlled. Look how Yugoslavia was carved up, which isn't 100% complete according to NATO.
Exactly, already, a wrong turn. The idea of nationalism is the idea of the 19 century. The abolishment of the Astro-Hungarian Empire at the end of WW I, I think, was a road that eventually led to creating and splitting of Yugoslavia. I think there was another lesson repeated - the vilification of Serbs. But this is a different angle, of course.
Additionally, Palestine doesn't have a Mandela, a man who could plausibly be created into a symbol for reunification. The chances of a woman filling that role points to the irony of religiously oppressed countries.
The Hamas demand doesn't help Palestinians, it condemns them to a continuation of the genocidal conditions they've been subjected to for 70 years. Expecting the rest of the world to fight for Palestine's right to exist while denying the same to Israel is delusional, as is thinking they can achieve a Palestinian state without that support.
The problem is that even if Palestinians themselves don't agree with this demand, we have no way of knowing because of the chaotic conditions that prevail there.
An interesting Q underneath it all has always been by what right was the League of Nations mandate of 1923 grounded on? Palestine was an Ottoman province for several centuries and accommodated peoples of all faiths. There was never any need to change that status. The clear Q is Why was that done. And the answer is to be found in the Imperialist aspirations of the UK and France in the region, first for the construction of a canal and later for hegemony over the Oil Lands. And now it's the announced landed aircraft carrier of the Outlaw US Empire, again to control the Oil Lands. As was said: If Israel didn't exist, the Outlaw US Empire would have had to create it. None of this has anything to do with the rights of people; it's 100% about Imperialist exploitation of the region and its peoples. All that's well recognized by the regions nations who are now trying their best to peacefully oust the Outaw US Empire and its vassals from the region so peace and development can reign.
Yes, Hamas is cutting through the bull of the delusional two state 'solution'. South Africa wasn't burdened with having to give lip service to an unworkable concept that its OK for oppression and colonisation by Europeans because they've given the people living there a little bit a land called a State (as well as constantly reneging on the terms and establishment of even this egregious agreement).
And how can there be a separate area for a nation of expansionist, white supremacist, religious zealots within Palestine?
Also in South Africa the Black people were in a clear majority, and the Whites could see the unsustainability of the situation, whereas the Jews and Arabs seem to be in approximate population parity and the Zionists, not only don't see a problem, they want Israel to be even larger.
I think there was a combination agenda, the Western Imperialist and a Zionist Claim to Biblically promised territory. I can't imagine that the Imperialist side seriously think they can conquer S.A. , Iran & Iraq and more to control oil etc. any more. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that for the past few decades it has been the Israeli agenda that has been the main driver of chaos, though of course the Oil Majors make more money when such turmoil drives up prices.
However, I think you are identifying a linchpin, namely US support of Israel. Without it, how would the latter do in the region, how much chutzpah could they muster to keep engendering regional instability, presumably to further their expansionist agenda? My guess is that their ability to punch above their weight would diminish rapidly.
Therefore, this conflict will continue until the US find their bases are more of a liability than an asset; and once those go, then their ability to force project as an Israeli proxy (again assuming Israel is the dominant driver now in the US-IS partnership) weakens to little more than long-range missiles from submarines in an Armaggedon / Samson scenario.
So as with Ukraine, the key is a longer term attrition gambit to oust the neocons by bleeding the US out.
Another linchpin is the Zionist ideology itself. I wonder: what if the Jews were given a homeland in middle Ukraine with Odessa as their sea port which could be developed as the main maritime entry into Europe from the Asian traffic coming over via the Suez canal? For most modern Jews, Ukraine is more like their actual ancestral homeland. Their natural predilection is to act as profit-seeking middlemen in long distance trading.
What if a contiguous territory was accorded the Palestinians and a much smaller Israeli State were formed from Tel Aviv up towards Syria, mainly coastal, from which they could work on this East-West trade route? Then their people could live partly in Northern Israel mainly on the coast and mainly in central Ukraine (Russia will re-absorb Kiev, which the Rus took long, long ago as a Viking tribe). If the Palestinians have a truly contiguous situation including Gaza and Jerusalem and all the West Bank areas with no more settlers, walls, checkpoints etc. then maybe the Two State situation might make more sense for them. As it is with the territories split and the West Bank bantustanned it's a non-starter proposal. Meanwhile, if the Jews can actually renounce their eschatological/Biblical narrative in favor of having a viable nation state for their people with favorable role in global trade, bridging East and West.....
The part of your excerpt I find truly encouraging is at the beginning: mustering external nations to create a situation which can begin to form a solution. This has to happen. I don't think the UN will work, something different and region-specific must be formed. Something new. Things have to change. The old corrupt order is not a good foundation for progress.
The big hurdle is trying to reason with unreasonable people, like Netanyahu and other crazed Zionists. They won't cede anything they stole as that's their nature. It must be recalled that Zionism is an Imperialist ism and was brought to life ***after*** the initial tries to colonize the region by the French and Brits. Suez was finally built, but which of those two Imperialists controlled the region where it was built? The initial idea really had nothing to do with Judaism. That aspect was introduced when Disraeli become UK PM--he's Jewish. Then came Sykes-Picot which was followed by Balfour, and then by the 1923 Mandate. Zionists allied with Hitler because his agenda furthered their agenda, and they picked a winner at the cost of millions. And that card is still played today despite the fact that the Zionists have become Nazis.
I'd like to run the above by Lavrov and get his opinion. But even if he concurs, that still doesn't solve the current problem as it merely makes the historical context clearer. Removing the Outlaw US Empire from the scene would be helpful and increase leverage on the Zionists. The problem there is the energy issue as the Empire's elites know they face a huge problem in just a few years as the Empire's proven oil reserves begin to run out. Therefore, look to see the Palestinian issue prolonged at all cost.
I'm not sure that the Empire needs the oil for itself. US domestic oil means it's largely independent and even Red states are forging ahead with wind and solar power. Though Canada and the UK fund new pipelines and drilling; peak fossil fuel is coming and assets may well be stranded.
China is leading the way with electric infrastructure and Africa is likely to develop with the greenest economy yet thanks to them.
The Empire may not need the oil in West Asia but they certainly don't want anyone but their vassals and client states, or Moslem, or brown people having access to it or making money and gaining power from it.
The Empire is dependent on imported oil and refined products. Extraction stats are shaped to please Wall Street, which is to say they lie about longevity. The key stat is refinery capacity and how its decreased over the last 20 years.
Exactly. It was post GFC zero interest money through the financial pipeline that made fracking "viable". The FED's first tightening put the wobbles into the system leading to the REPO crisis in Aug 2019. BTW Texas operates the most at 47 refineries, then Louisiana with 19.
#Israel #Palestine Response to Karl Sanchez' "Palestine Update"
"Of course, the bigger problem is there's no International Law support for the Hamas vision..."
Well, of course, there could be! All that is needed is for the UN to reverse its 1947 partition! This would eliminate the issue as Israel would automatically be an "illegal state" - whatever that means under international law, if it means anything - and all subsequent UN decisions affirming Israel's "right to exist" would be null and void, as would all decisions affirming the two-state solution.
Now to turn to the problem of "Hamas must lose". Well, that is a malleable position if the Axis of Resistance decides it is. I assume that Hezbollah expects Hamas to not lose.
And indeed so far Hamas is not losing. Hamas' losses are probably still in the three to four digits, whatever Israel claims, out of 20-30,000 fighters (and no doubt more every day as new recruits come into Hamas). If Hamas gets as many recruits as they are losing fighters, they can continue indefinitely, albeit with less trained fighters over time (similar to Ukraine's problem.)
Also, if Hamas can hold out for months more, the economic disaster that face Israel will get worse and may force a collapse of the Zionist regime, which in turn might open the door for actual negotiations.
In addition, based on what the Zionists are apparently planning, that issue will resolve itself when Israel attacks Lebanon, which appears almost certain now. At that point, Hezbollah can take off the gloves. In fact, I expect Hezbollah anticipated this when they made their "we'll only come in if Hamas loses" statement - which technically was never true as they've been attacking northern Israel for months.
I interpreted Hezbollah's statement as "we'll only destroy Israel if Hamas loses." But obviously that doesn't apply if Israel attacks Lebanon. I think Crooke is correct that the Axis is ratcheting up the pressure on a specific timetable based on the overall situation. So Hezbollah's statement is not an iron-clad guarantee that they will stay out of it until Hamas loses.
There simply can not be a two-state solution, at all. Period. Not while the majority of Jews want Palestinians gone and vice versa. The majority of one side or the other will have to emigrate and the remainder who are allowed to stay must agree not to use violence against the other side. At the moment the Jews are out-numbered by the regional actors and their military dominance has been eroded sufficiently that their military defeat is very likely. The US can play a spoiler roll in that, but that will only delay the inevitable. So Hamas is correct when they say that the Palestinians can win this - with outside help.
If the Zionists want to remain in Israel, their only option is to renounce Zionism and accept a one-state solution. If they don't, they are going to be forced to flee eventually. I've said all along that the Zionist project was idiotic and doomed to failure, nuclear weapons or not. The fact that it lasted 75 years was due solely to three factors: 1) the Palestinians were weak; 2) the Arab states were weak and divided; 3) support from the colonial West. Now 1) has been reduced because Hamas got stronger, 2) has been reduced and replaced by non-state actors like Hezbollah and support from Iran, and 3) has been reduced by geopolitical factors.
The time is now. Both sides appear to have realized this which is why a regional war is a near certainty.
But I'm always wrong.
Can't wait to hear what Crooke has to say about this latest development.
We're mostly on the same page. The Mashaal interview is at least ten days old--"In a three-part interview with Kuwaiti podcaster Amar Taki, posted during the second week of January 2024,..."--and must be known by Lavrov and OIC. So, one big issue: Who will speak for the Palestinians since they won't be allowed to go through a normal political process to elect representation? What will tomorrow reveal? Lavrov will remain at the UN as more action will occur there. Putin entertained Chad's transitional ruler today. Tomorrow?
I'm unclear as to the meaning of your question "who will speak for the Palestinians?". In what venue - the UN? The OIC?
I find this interesting: Wikipedia has an entry called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine which explicitly states that the PLO is in charge of the State of Palestine. And this: "On 15 November 1988 in Algiers, Yasser Arafat, as Chairman of the PLO, issued the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, which established the State of Palestine."
So technically, under Article 51 of the UN Charter, Palestine is already a "state" just as the Donbass regions were before being incorporated into the Russian Federation. And they already have representation by the PLO in various missions and embassies.
Now, of course, the PLO is crap controlled by Israel and Hamas are the only real spokesmen for Palestine. Hamas is considered a terrorist group by everyone including Russia.
So I view the entire issue as irrelevant. No one needs to "speak for" the Palestinians except Hamas because they have the guns. And they have spoken as stated: "No Zionist entity in Palestine."
It also doesn't matter what Russia does. Nothing will happen in the UNSC. Nothing will happen in the UNGA. If Hamas isn't represented in the OIC, nothing will happen there.
The time for talk is over. Now the only thing that matters is military force.
At the end of the conflict, either Hamas and Hezbollah and Ansar Allah and whoever else takes up arms against Israel and the US remain standing, or they don't. If they do, what is the status of the so-called "State of Israel"? If they don't, the Palestinians will be driven out and become citizens of whatever country they're driven to, as in Jordan. If they do, the Jews will be driven out and become citizens of whatever country they're driven to.
Palestine will either be a Jewish state or a self-declared Palestinian state. At that point, the UN and the RoW can decide whether they want to listen to whoever comes out on top in Palestine or not.
So the whole issue of "representation" is irrelevant unless and until Palestine has freed itself of the Zionists. This is an all or nothing conflict - which few people besides Crooke and me can see.
Lavrov held a presser today and the transcript was just published. I'm now reading it and will soon post it. Here's part of his first answer that deals with your Q:
"But the first step (I spoke about this yesterday and today with the OIC countries) is absolutely necessary to make efforts to restore Palestinian unity, so that all the factions that exist in them and those who work with them from abroad come together and declare the restoration of the unity of the Palestinian people as a solid foundation for a future state. Without this, all the schemes floating around in behind-the-scenes conversations are unviable. They are only aimed at creating the appearance of change in Gaza without uniting it with the West Bank under a single state, keeping the Palestinian side divided and not united again, and buying time. We are concerned about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's statement that there is no talk of creating a Palestinian state."
Lavrov doesn't get it. There IS Palestinian unity. What there isn't is a unified Palestinian government; it's split between Hamas and the PNA. If Lavrov can come up with a plan to eliminate the PNA or force it to agree with Hamas, that would be laudable, but also irrelevant.
Unless the Palestinians in the West Bank are prepared to confront Israel as Hamas is doing, only Hamas will remain as the only real government of Palestine because only Hamas is confronting the Zionists in proper terms, i.e., militarily.
Hezbollah is in support of Hamas and the Palestinian people, not the PNA. For them, it only matters what Hamas does, not the PNA. I suspect the same goes for Ansar Allah and the rest of the regional militias.
I see what Lavrov wants to do, but it's irrelevant on the ground.. He's putting the cart before the horse. Get the Zionists out first, then worry about unifying a Palestinian government. Once the Zionists are gone, the Palestinians can have a civil war, who cares? That's their internal problem. The regional threat to peace are the Zionists.
Lavrov doesn't get it. There IS Palestinian unity.
Unless the Palestinians in the West Bank are prepared to confront Israel as Hamas is doing, only Hamas will remain as the only real government of Palestine because only Hamas is confronting the Zionists in proper terms, i.e., militarily.
Hezbollah is in support of Hamas and the Palestinian people, not the PNA.
There ought to be a fitting quote from Dune about the vagaries of diplomacy or “statecraft”. I’m a bit rusty, sadly. We can freely discuss the likelihood (or. Inevitability) of a one state future for Greater Palestine but he has “toe the line”- imho he’s a consummate master.
Yes, he has to "toe the line." Which the world has been doing since 1947, and as Lavrov constantly repeats, "see where that has gotten us." Except he only blames the US and not the RoW, especially the colonial West.
But he has to worry about the million or so Russian Jewish citizens in Israel. He thinks relying on diplomacy - well, he IS a diplomat - is the only way to save them from the inevitable results of a collapse of Israel.
Always did work. That's why Hamas was created - to split the Palestinians. But now that idea is failing because Hamas is the only correct representative of the Palestinians. The Zionists shot themselves in the foot, the same way they did when they invaded Lebanon to stop Palestinian groups there and ended up pissing off the Shia until the Shia created Hezbollah.
Just the same old story: oppression creates resistance which overthrows oppression - and then usually becomes the new oppression. Truman explicitly said that about the Jews: they were oppressed in Europe, then came to Palestine and became oppressors.
I would hesitate to bet against him. I’m now reminded of a quote from “The Mouse that Roared” or its sequel (whose title sadly escapes me). The foreign minister for the Queen of his tiny country (think Andorra) sank into his pillow after a particularly gnarly negotiation- “he hadn’t merely snatched victory from the jaws of defeat - he had snatched Compromise from the jaws of Disaster!” If anyone can.......
What I see happening is Big Picture where there becomes absolutely no doubt that the entire Global Majority demands justice for Palestine and more serious measures get deployed like a global embargo against all NATO nations and Occupied Palestine, while pressure is also applied to Azerbaijan and Turkey to cease the flow of oil. Actions will also occur in Iraq and Syria, and perhaps elsewhere in the region. The ICJ ruling will fan the flames regardless its specifics. And I've only mentioned a few of the many possibilities that might occur in 2024.
Their guns and mortars and missiles and drones and their fighters - and anyone else with the guts and the conviction to have their backs. Cuts Russia and China out.
I can understand why the Palestinians would not want a two state solution. That idea has never worked, and it most likely never will.
It seems since the Palestinians are out gunned they will lose their lands and their people be absorbed by other races. One less genetic line in the human tree. Unless other nations combine against Israel this may well happen. Shall we call it natural selection and then go back to business?
True. It follows with other curious facts about the chosen people. The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" clearly point out a long-term plan for rule. If global domination is the goal, I must say they played the game to a point of winning.
High Praise for Khaled Mashaal ...... Israel, the USA nor Russia get to tell the Palestinians what they want nor how or who represents them. Lavrov included.
Free All of Palestine from the Genocidal War Criminals of the Zionist Entity!
The Criminal Regime that is Israel must be Eradicated!
There will never be a two state solution. The only viable solution nobody talks about: one state for Palestians and Jews. Everyone gets to vote. Period?
As the Palestinians are most likely the descendants of the lost ten tribes and the Jews the descendants of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, in a biblical sense they should live together as a whole Israel as it is promised in the Bible.
But for both parties to come to senses, this needs a spirit not from this world.
Too little; too late. The UN has no inherent right to impose any "solution." They had 75 years & failed to act.
US/UK/Israel went too far...long ago. Israel exists on stolen land & a mountain of corpses & destroyed lives.
There will be a one-state solution & it will be called Palestine. It will be multi-ethnic, majority Muslim. The Euro-Zionists will leave. The semitic Jews that stay will fucking shut up & keep their heads down.
again - no obvious solutions here... not everyone in israel is a zionist... those in power might be though.. i don't know, but it appears that way.. it also appears israel is moving further and further to the right with a type of intolerance that is only matched by mashaal, but from the opposite side.... 2 opposing fanatics - what is the resolution to that? i can't see it myself.. a 2 state solution - it looks dead in the water... an end to apartheid - that would be a one state solution.. for that to happen, there would have to be a recognition inside israel and among their political overlords - the usa - for this.. i can't see that either..
hard line meets hard line
Israel can say that Hamas is out to destroy them thus they must continue genocide
the problem for the Zionists is that the world sees what is going on and since they will fail at their goal of complete eradication, there will come a negotiated settlement
the longer this continues and the more bodies including UN staff and journalists, the level of hatred for the Zionists and the state of Israel
and as the power of the US empire continues to decline with the decline accelerated by participating with genocide
and the rest of the world looks on in horror and seek out other arrangements like BRICS and NAM (see Karlof''s earlier substack) and many other cooperative organizations
and as Scott Ritter said in a recent interview, in the 1980's the US military could fight 2 and 1/2 wars while today they could not fight one
and all the while Michael Hudson's work: live by finance, die by finance -- when the big financial crash comes, Russia is self sufficient but the US, and our lap dogs will crash
Israel, like the US, are attempting a holding action as the ground has shifted and their hand holds are either failing already, or on a path to fail
The West is making the transition to a multi polar world as painful as possible
"The West is making the transition to a multi polar world as painful as possible."
Yes, mostly for itself.
That'ss the way of Empire, unfortunately a slow decline is also typical.
"..a slow decline is also typical", yes, as is sudden collapse. The "empire" is so obsessed with retaining control it can't imagine or create a positive future, just more of the same. The USSR collapse was long talked about, but surprise, it happened.
This seems to be a conundrum....I do not think I would even think it a year ago, but the only way is the way of South Africa. One state. Can it be done? That is really the question, isn’t it.
I don't recall the Afrikaner's policy being as harsh as the Zionists, meaning black South Africans weren't filled with as much hate and desire for vengeance, so living together was possible, although changes in the wealth and class structure needed to be done and still remain incomplete. The problem I see is the Zionist public being mostly in favor of Genocide. Their minds are as polluted as those who support Kiev and NATO. They all need to be deprogrammed from their extremism.
"We" definitely subjugated the Black Nation - killed, tortured and unfairly imprisoned them, gave them Black Label beer and Coca-Cola. Townships were poor but not bombed. After all, they were needed as the cheap labour class. Israel is infinitely worse, so for them to pretend it's not Apartheid is painfully laughable.
Sadly, I think it is the case. But two states solution would deal with the same hatred.
Yes, Europe was poisoned in the same way which is why the nation states were mostly homogeneous until very recently and are now having trouble assimilating all the immigrants.
I am not so sure if European nation states were homogenous. Certainly not the ones in Central and Eastern Europe. After all, as Benedict Anderson written about the idea of a nation to be an imagined community created for capitalism to have centralised language market seems to have a possibility not to be a poisoned community. Sadly, historical development went the way you described.
The term Balkanization has much meaning--fragmenting ethnic groups into small mostly homogenous groups/nations so they could easily be controlled. Look how Yugoslavia was carved up, which isn't 100% complete according to NATO.
Exactly, already, a wrong turn. The idea of nationalism is the idea of the 19 century. The abolishment of the Astro-Hungarian Empire at the end of WW I, I think, was a road that eventually led to creating and splitting of Yugoslavia. I think there was another lesson repeated - the vilification of Serbs. But this is a different angle, of course.
Additionally, Palestine doesn't have a Mandela, a man who could plausibly be created into a symbol for reunification. The chances of a woman filling that role points to the irony of religiously oppressed countries.
Hamas has released 'Our Narrative… Operation Al-Aqsa Flood' but it's not getting fair coverage, so I posted it at https://mikehampton.substack.com/p/oct-7-hamas-tells-their-side-of-the
Thanks Mike!!
The Hamas demand doesn't help Palestinians, it condemns them to a continuation of the genocidal conditions they've been subjected to for 70 years. Expecting the rest of the world to fight for Palestine's right to exist while denying the same to Israel is delusional, as is thinking they can achieve a Palestinian state without that support.
The problem is that even if Palestinians themselves don't agree with this demand, we have no way of knowing because of the chaotic conditions that prevail there.
An interesting Q underneath it all has always been by what right was the League of Nations mandate of 1923 grounded on? Palestine was an Ottoman province for several centuries and accommodated peoples of all faiths. There was never any need to change that status. The clear Q is Why was that done. And the answer is to be found in the Imperialist aspirations of the UK and France in the region, first for the construction of a canal and later for hegemony over the Oil Lands. And now it's the announced landed aircraft carrier of the Outlaw US Empire, again to control the Oil Lands. As was said: If Israel didn't exist, the Outlaw US Empire would have had to create it. None of this has anything to do with the rights of people; it's 100% about Imperialist exploitation of the region and its peoples. All that's well recognized by the regions nations who are now trying their best to peacefully oust the Outaw US Empire and its vassals from the region so peace and development can reign.
Yes, Hamas is cutting through the bull of the delusional two state 'solution'. South Africa wasn't burdened with having to give lip service to an unworkable concept that its OK for oppression and colonisation by Europeans because they've given the people living there a little bit a land called a State (as well as constantly reneging on the terms and establishment of even this egregious agreement).
And how can there be a separate area for a nation of expansionist, white supremacist, religious zealots within Palestine?
Also in South Africa the Black people were in a clear majority, and the Whites could see the unsustainability of the situation, whereas the Jews and Arabs seem to be in approximate population parity and the Zionists, not only don't see a problem, they want Israel to be even larger.
I would say the Afrikaners were far more reasonable, sensible people mainly because they lacked a Messianistic ideology.
I think there was a combination agenda, the Western Imperialist and a Zionist Claim to Biblically promised territory. I can't imagine that the Imperialist side seriously think they can conquer S.A. , Iran & Iraq and more to control oil etc. any more. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that for the past few decades it has been the Israeli agenda that has been the main driver of chaos, though of course the Oil Majors make more money when such turmoil drives up prices.
However, I think you are identifying a linchpin, namely US support of Israel. Without it, how would the latter do in the region, how much chutzpah could they muster to keep engendering regional instability, presumably to further their expansionist agenda? My guess is that their ability to punch above their weight would diminish rapidly.
Therefore, this conflict will continue until the US find their bases are more of a liability than an asset; and once those go, then their ability to force project as an Israeli proxy (again assuming Israel is the dominant driver now in the US-IS partnership) weakens to little more than long-range missiles from submarines in an Armaggedon / Samson scenario.
So as with Ukraine, the key is a longer term attrition gambit to oust the neocons by bleeding the US out.
Another linchpin is the Zionist ideology itself. I wonder: what if the Jews were given a homeland in middle Ukraine with Odessa as their sea port which could be developed as the main maritime entry into Europe from the Asian traffic coming over via the Suez canal? For most modern Jews, Ukraine is more like their actual ancestral homeland. Their natural predilection is to act as profit-seeking middlemen in long distance trading.
What if a contiguous territory was accorded the Palestinians and a much smaller Israeli State were formed from Tel Aviv up towards Syria, mainly coastal, from which they could work on this East-West trade route? Then their people could live partly in Northern Israel mainly on the coast and mainly in central Ukraine (Russia will re-absorb Kiev, which the Rus took long, long ago as a Viking tribe). If the Palestinians have a truly contiguous situation including Gaza and Jerusalem and all the West Bank areas with no more settlers, walls, checkpoints etc. then maybe the Two State situation might make more sense for them. As it is with the territories split and the West Bank bantustanned it's a non-starter proposal. Meanwhile, if the Jews can actually renounce their eschatological/Biblical narrative in favor of having a viable nation state for their people with favorable role in global trade, bridging East and West.....
The part of your excerpt I find truly encouraging is at the beginning: mustering external nations to create a situation which can begin to form a solution. This has to happen. I don't think the UN will work, something different and region-specific must be formed. Something new. Things have to change. The old corrupt order is not a good foundation for progress.
The big hurdle is trying to reason with unreasonable people, like Netanyahu and other crazed Zionists. They won't cede anything they stole as that's their nature. It must be recalled that Zionism is an Imperialist ism and was brought to life ***after*** the initial tries to colonize the region by the French and Brits. Suez was finally built, but which of those two Imperialists controlled the region where it was built? The initial idea really had nothing to do with Judaism. That aspect was introduced when Disraeli become UK PM--he's Jewish. Then came Sykes-Picot which was followed by Balfour, and then by the 1923 Mandate. Zionists allied with Hitler because his agenda furthered their agenda, and they picked a winner at the cost of millions. And that card is still played today despite the fact that the Zionists have become Nazis.
I'd like to run the above by Lavrov and get his opinion. But even if he concurs, that still doesn't solve the current problem as it merely makes the historical context clearer. Removing the Outlaw US Empire from the scene would be helpful and increase leverage on the Zionists. The problem there is the energy issue as the Empire's elites know they face a huge problem in just a few years as the Empire's proven oil reserves begin to run out. Therefore, look to see the Palestinian issue prolonged at all cost.
I'm not sure that the Empire needs the oil for itself. US domestic oil means it's largely independent and even Red states are forging ahead with wind and solar power. Though Canada and the UK fund new pipelines and drilling; peak fossil fuel is coming and assets may well be stranded.
China is leading the way with electric infrastructure and Africa is likely to develop with the greenest economy yet thanks to them.
The Empire may not need the oil in West Asia but they certainly don't want anyone but their vassals and client states, or Moslem, or brown people having access to it or making money and gaining power from it.
The Empire is dependent on imported oil and refined products. Extraction stats are shaped to please Wall Street, which is to say they lie about longevity. The key stat is refinery capacity and how its decreased over the last 20 years.
Exactly. It was post GFC zero interest money through the financial pipeline that made fracking "viable". The FED's first tightening put the wobbles into the system leading to the REPO crisis in Aug 2019. BTW Texas operates the most at 47 refineries, then Louisiana with 19.
Dont' all the $billions, bombs and ammo come from the States? Zionism is just hot air without US backing.
you aren't going to change the past... the question is how to move into the future in a positive way? that is not obvious to me here...
#Israel #Palestine Response to Karl Sanchez' "Palestine Update"
"Of course, the bigger problem is there's no International Law support for the Hamas vision..."
Well, of course, there could be! All that is needed is for the UN to reverse its 1947 partition! This would eliminate the issue as Israel would automatically be an "illegal state" - whatever that means under international law, if it means anything - and all subsequent UN decisions affirming Israel's "right to exist" would be null and void, as would all decisions affirming the two-state solution.
Now to turn to the problem of "Hamas must lose". Well, that is a malleable position if the Axis of Resistance decides it is. I assume that Hezbollah expects Hamas to not lose.
And indeed so far Hamas is not losing. Hamas' losses are probably still in the three to four digits, whatever Israel claims, out of 20-30,000 fighters (and no doubt more every day as new recruits come into Hamas). If Hamas gets as many recruits as they are losing fighters, they can continue indefinitely, albeit with less trained fighters over time (similar to Ukraine's problem.)
Also, if Hamas can hold out for months more, the economic disaster that face Israel will get worse and may force a collapse of the Zionist regime, which in turn might open the door for actual negotiations.
In addition, based on what the Zionists are apparently planning, that issue will resolve itself when Israel attacks Lebanon, which appears almost certain now. At that point, Hezbollah can take off the gloves. In fact, I expect Hezbollah anticipated this when they made their "we'll only come in if Hamas loses" statement - which technically was never true as they've been attacking northern Israel for months.
I interpreted Hezbollah's statement as "we'll only destroy Israel if Hamas loses." But obviously that doesn't apply if Israel attacks Lebanon. I think Crooke is correct that the Axis is ratcheting up the pressure on a specific timetable based on the overall situation. So Hezbollah's statement is not an iron-clad guarantee that they will stay out of it until Hamas loses.
There simply can not be a two-state solution, at all. Period. Not while the majority of Jews want Palestinians gone and vice versa. The majority of one side or the other will have to emigrate and the remainder who are allowed to stay must agree not to use violence against the other side. At the moment the Jews are out-numbered by the regional actors and their military dominance has been eroded sufficiently that their military defeat is very likely. The US can play a spoiler roll in that, but that will only delay the inevitable. So Hamas is correct when they say that the Palestinians can win this - with outside help.
If the Zionists want to remain in Israel, their only option is to renounce Zionism and accept a one-state solution. If they don't, they are going to be forced to flee eventually. I've said all along that the Zionist project was idiotic and doomed to failure, nuclear weapons or not. The fact that it lasted 75 years was due solely to three factors: 1) the Palestinians were weak; 2) the Arab states were weak and divided; 3) support from the colonial West. Now 1) has been reduced because Hamas got stronger, 2) has been reduced and replaced by non-state actors like Hezbollah and support from Iran, and 3) has been reduced by geopolitical factors.
The time is now. Both sides appear to have realized this which is why a regional war is a near certainty.
But I'm always wrong.
Can't wait to hear what Crooke has to say about this latest development.
We're mostly on the same page. The Mashaal interview is at least ten days old--"In a three-part interview with Kuwaiti podcaster Amar Taki, posted during the second week of January 2024,..."--and must be known by Lavrov and OIC. So, one big issue: Who will speak for the Palestinians since they won't be allowed to go through a normal political process to elect representation? What will tomorrow reveal? Lavrov will remain at the UN as more action will occur there. Putin entertained Chad's transitional ruler today. Tomorrow?
I'm unclear as to the meaning of your question "who will speak for the Palestinians?". In what venue - the UN? The OIC?
I find this interesting: Wikipedia has an entry called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine which explicitly states that the PLO is in charge of the State of Palestine. And this: "On 15 November 1988 in Algiers, Yasser Arafat, as Chairman of the PLO, issued the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, which established the State of Palestine."
So technically, under Article 51 of the UN Charter, Palestine is already a "state" just as the Donbass regions were before being incorporated into the Russian Federation. And they already have representation by the PLO in various missions and embassies.
Now, of course, the PLO is crap controlled by Israel and Hamas are the only real spokesmen for Palestine. Hamas is considered a terrorist group by everyone including Russia.
So I view the entire issue as irrelevant. No one needs to "speak for" the Palestinians except Hamas because they have the guns. And they have spoken as stated: "No Zionist entity in Palestine."
It also doesn't matter what Russia does. Nothing will happen in the UNSC. Nothing will happen in the UNGA. If Hamas isn't represented in the OIC, nothing will happen there.
The time for talk is over. Now the only thing that matters is military force.
At the end of the conflict, either Hamas and Hezbollah and Ansar Allah and whoever else takes up arms against Israel and the US remain standing, or they don't. If they do, what is the status of the so-called "State of Israel"? If they don't, the Palestinians will be driven out and become citizens of whatever country they're driven to, as in Jordan. If they do, the Jews will be driven out and become citizens of whatever country they're driven to.
Palestine will either be a Jewish state or a self-declared Palestinian state. At that point, the UN and the RoW can decide whether they want to listen to whoever comes out on top in Palestine or not.
So the whole issue of "representation" is irrelevant unless and until Palestine has freed itself of the Zionists. This is an all or nothing conflict - which few people besides Crooke and me can see.
But I'm always wrong.
Lavrov held a presser today and the transcript was just published. I'm now reading it and will soon post it. Here's part of his first answer that deals with your Q:
"But the first step (I spoke about this yesterday and today with the OIC countries) is absolutely necessary to make efforts to restore Palestinian unity, so that all the factions that exist in them and those who work with them from abroad come together and declare the restoration of the unity of the Palestinian people as a solid foundation for a future state. Without this, all the schemes floating around in behind-the-scenes conversations are unviable. They are only aimed at creating the appearance of change in Gaza without uniting it with the West Bank under a single state, keeping the Palestinian side divided and not united again, and buying time. We are concerned about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's statement that there is no talk of creating a Palestinian state."
Lavrov doesn't get it. There IS Palestinian unity. What there isn't is a unified Palestinian government; it's split between Hamas and the PNA. If Lavrov can come up with a plan to eliminate the PNA or force it to agree with Hamas, that would be laudable, but also irrelevant.
Unless the Palestinians in the West Bank are prepared to confront Israel as Hamas is doing, only Hamas will remain as the only real government of Palestine because only Hamas is confronting the Zionists in proper terms, i.e., militarily.
Hezbollah is in support of Hamas and the Palestinian people, not the PNA. For them, it only matters what Hamas does, not the PNA. I suspect the same goes for Ansar Allah and the rest of the regional militias.
I see what Lavrov wants to do, but it's irrelevant on the ground.. He's putting the cart before the horse. Get the Zionists out first, then worry about unifying a Palestinian government. Once the Zionists are gone, the Palestinians can have a civil war, who cares? That's their internal problem. The regional threat to peace are the Zionists.
YES ....
Lavrov doesn't get it. There IS Palestinian unity.
Unless the Palestinians in the West Bank are prepared to confront Israel as Hamas is doing, only Hamas will remain as the only real government of Palestine because only Hamas is confronting the Zionists in proper terms, i.e., militarily.
Hezbollah is in support of Hamas and the Palestinian people, not the PNA.
There ought to be a fitting quote from Dune about the vagaries of diplomacy or “statecraft”. I’m a bit rusty, sadly. We can freely discuss the likelihood (or. Inevitability) of a one state future for Greater Palestine but he has “toe the line”- imho he’s a consummate master.
Yes, he has to "toe the line." Which the world has been doing since 1947, and as Lavrov constantly repeats, "see where that has gotten us." Except he only blames the US and not the RoW, especially the colonial West.
But he has to worry about the million or so Russian Jewish citizens in Israel. He thinks relying on diplomacy - well, he IS a diplomat - is the only way to save them from the inevitable results of a collapse of Israel.
So he's going to fail at that, too.
in other words... israels ''divide and conquer'' approach is working...
Always did work. That's why Hamas was created - to split the Palestinians. But now that idea is failing because Hamas is the only correct representative of the Palestinians. The Zionists shot themselves in the foot, the same way they did when they invaded Lebanon to stop Palestinian groups there and ended up pissing off the Shia until the Shia created Hezbollah.
Just the same old story: oppression creates resistance which overthrows oppression - and then usually becomes the new oppression. Truman explicitly said that about the Jews: they were oppressed in Europe, then came to Palestine and became oppressors.
I would hesitate to bet against him. I’m now reminded of a quote from “The Mouse that Roared” or its sequel (whose title sadly escapes me). The foreign minister for the Queen of his tiny country (think Andorra) sank into his pillow after a particularly gnarly negotiation- “he hadn’t merely snatched victory from the jaws of defeat - he had snatched Compromise from the jaws of Disaster!” If anyone can.......
What I see happening is Big Picture where there becomes absolutely no doubt that the entire Global Majority demands justice for Palestine and more serious measures get deployed like a global embargo against all NATO nations and Occupied Palestine, while pressure is also applied to Azerbaijan and Turkey to cease the flow of oil. Actions will also occur in Iraq and Syria, and perhaps elsewhere in the region. The ICJ ruling will fan the flames regardless its specifics. And I've only mentioned a few of the many possibilities that might occur in 2024.
"who will speak for the Palestinians?"
Their guns and mortars and missiles and drones and their fighters - and anyone else with the guts and the conviction to have their backs. Cuts Russia and China out.
I can understand why the Palestinians would not want a two state solution. That idea has never worked, and it most likely never will.
It seems since the Palestinians are out gunned they will lose their lands and their people be absorbed by other races. One less genetic line in the human tree. Unless other nations combine against Israel this may well happen. Shall we call it natural selection and then go back to business?
The big problem is it's not natural whatsoever; it's been contrived as an Imperialist goal since its outset 200 years ago.
True. It follows with other curious facts about the chosen people. The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" clearly point out a long-term plan for rule. If global domination is the goal, I must say they played the game to a point of winning.
The US wants to put the UN on ignore if it cannot get its way.
It seems to me that the war in Ukraine and now the Palestinian genocide are bringing the UN to the fore. If so, The USUK burnt its own fingers.
High Praise for Khaled Mashaal ...... Israel, the USA nor Russia get to tell the Palestinians what they want nor how or who represents them. Lavrov included.
Free All of Palestine from the Genocidal War Criminals of the Zionist Entity!
The Criminal Regime that is Israel must be Eradicated!
There will never be a two state solution. The only viable solution nobody talks about: one state for Palestians and Jews. Everyone gets to vote. Period?
Unfortunately, the history of the situation makes that very difficult to obtain.
As the Palestinians are most likely the descendants of the lost ten tribes and the Jews the descendants of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, in a biblical sense they should live together as a whole Israel as it is promised in the Bible.
But for both parties to come to senses, this needs a spirit not from this world.
Too little; too late. The UN has no inherent right to impose any "solution." They had 75 years & failed to act.
US/UK/Israel went too far...long ago. Israel exists on stolen land & a mountain of corpses & destroyed lives.
There will be a one-state solution & it will be called Palestine. It will be multi-ethnic, majority Muslim. The Euro-Zionists will leave. The semitic Jews that stay will fucking shut up & keep their heads down.
again - no obvious solutions here... not everyone in israel is a zionist... those in power might be though.. i don't know, but it appears that way.. it also appears israel is moving further and further to the right with a type of intolerance that is only matched by mashaal, but from the opposite side.... 2 opposing fanatics - what is the resolution to that? i can't see it myself.. a 2 state solution - it looks dead in the water... an end to apartheid - that would be a one state solution.. for that to happen, there would have to be a recognition inside israel and among their political overlords - the usa - for this.. i can't see that either..