The USA used ATACM's missiles to strike in Russia, and Russia's response is beautifully calibrated.
First, it's crucial to note that it appears the ATACM's missile strike caused virtually no reported damage in Russia. It's possible that the attack was designed not to cause serious damage, so as not to provoke Russia too strongly.
With that in mind, Mr. Putin's announcement wasn't just that a tit-for-tat strike was made on Ukraine. Instead Russia revealed an entirely new weapon in its response. This missile's capabilities aren't known at present, but it seems likely that it's a medium range (as in thousands of kilometers) ballistic missile with multiple hypersonic warheads. A serious weapon in other words.
But that's not the important part. Mr. Putin's statement - in his trademark understated way - makes it clear that US military assets anywhere in the world are now legitimate targets for Russia. That means hundreds of military bases, and hundreds of critical military assets such as aircraft carriers are in the cross-hairs. (A single hypersonic missile will slice a Ford-class aircraft carrier in two.)
I doubt whether the USA will allow their weapons to make major strikes within Russia. It's likely to just be minor attacks for propaganda/morale purposes. However if Washington is stupid enough to take a further escalatory step, Russia has clearly stated what will happen next. And there's nothing the USA can do to stop it.
At New Years 2021-2, I said NATO had no weapons capable of defeating Rusia, not even its nukes. That message has yet to be proven false and IMO has been validated as true. And it's not just weapons as I noted in my recent rant. We must also understand how Putin's address will be received by Russia's friends. IMO, the entire event was brilliant as it answered several questions I had about Russia's missile systems, none of which are good for potential opponents.
I'm inclined to agree with you Karl, with the caveat that the USA could have some unknown weapon that could defeat Russia without an all-out nuclear war, as unlikely as that is.
The important point is that we no longer have to guess at Russia's offensive capabilities. The SMO has previously revealed very capable Russian weapons that can be used in a nearby theatre. Some of those weapons have no match in the US/NATO arsenal. Now Russia has revealed an entirely new weapon, and it is even more formidable than what we've seen so far. It doesn't just threaten Ukraine, but the entire European, North African and West Asia regions, and any American asset in those regions. And it does so without having to resort to a nuclear strike with an ICBM.
At the military level it's a strategic checkmate against Washington, although they won't acknowledge it of course. But in every capital around the world, the meaning will be clear. The USA is now a paper tiger vis-a-vis its peer adversaries. It's ability to project force around the world with impunity is now neutralized.
Russia has yet to reveal its laser and other weapons using new physical properties, both of which Putin's announced. Did you read PavewayIV's comment at MoA? Here's what I consider the most important part:
"Open question is whether US/NATO even detected the Oreshnik launch - which they *can* do for ICBMs and is critical to subsequent mid-course detection and to attempt a defense. Oreshnik is hypersonic mid-course does not leave the atmosphere like an ICBM. It may have been impossible to see or track by ground radar even if you detected the launch. Mach 10 terminal warhead speed makes it impossible for current AD systems to target or destroy in terminal phase. I know "Russian ICBM" sounds scary, but "Undetectable Russian IRBM with multiple hypersonic warheads" is much more likely to be what the Pentagon and NATO are obsessing about right now. "Put down the Xanax, General... that's not helping!""
I get it that the author is speaking tongue in cheek, but I believe it's probably a bit early to say much about the missile beyond the broad outline Putin gave. However with a little thought it's easy to see that nothing about the missile should be beyond Russia's well-known and fully demonstrated capabilities. We know that Russia has hypersonic weapons and that those missiles can manoeuvre in the terminal phase with pin-point accuracy. We also know that for decades Russia has had the capability to launch long-range missiles with multiple warheads. So the Oreshnik is just a modest evolutionary step really, and one that Russia is no doubt capable of.
I don't know if the launch of an Oreshnik would be detectable by America's surveillance, but I suggest it probably is. However even if it's detected that doesn't help Russia's adversaries. The targets that the Oreshnik's missiles would be used against are slow-moving or stationary. They can't hide, get out of the way, or prevent the strike. In the best case they might get 10-15 minutes to call their loved ones and say goodbye, but it won't change the outcome. Moreover, with multiple, independent and manoeuvrable hypersonic warheads, they could appear to be going to strike one target, and then veer off to strike another. So detecting Oreshnik's launch might buy you a few minutes but the consequences will not be prevented. As I said, even in the broad outline we know so far, it's a serious weapon.
Running a large rocket at hypersonic speeds in atmosphere the whole way at the claimed longer range while neither melting the airframe nor being noticed as a ginormous thermal track easily visible from orbit? While ALSO not being detectable by RADAR? To me implies a plasma skin anti friction envelope/guidance effect technology is being used.
An aeronautical analogue/equivalent of the Shkval torpedo's supercavitating bubble skin effect, an idea we've thought about but never worked out the use of in a practical weapon system, much less deployed AFAIK.
If the bugger is also plasma effect PROPELLED, we have just entered Star Wars territory.
May I use this opportunity to ask the several present expert gentlemen a question I've wondering about for some time now? About two decades ago, there was substantial news reporting in German MSM that the USofA was about to lift a satellite constellation into position equipped with sensitive IR detectors; it was said to be capable of detecting any sizable missile launch around the globe almost in real time. How is did that project turn out? Any info on this?
I'm definitely not an expert, just an interested observer. My understanding is that there are several ways that launches of ballistic missiles can be detected. The first is with medium-range radar systems. In the present case they would be located in Europe at NATO installations. The second is very long-range radar systems that can detect launches over the horizon. These are located in Alaska, Canada and Greenland. The third is specialized reconnaissance aircraft using onboard radar, but these must be airborne at the time of the launch to detect anything. Finally there is satellite imaging, which (AFAIK) is based on infrared detection of the missile's heat signature at launch. The latter method would be the most advantageous as it detects the missile the moment it leaves the launch pad. The USA's satellite detection constellation is in the midst of being deployed, according to the internet.
With all the different ways there are to detect a ballistic missile launch I think it's likely that at least the launch itself was detected and the missile tracked for some time. But once the warheads - which are relatively small, manoeuvrable and very high speed - were released from the missile, it's quite possible that the US no longer had the ability to track them.
Yes, basically. If the project that was said to be about to be implemented has been made work as planned and is still up, then we can safely assume that all missile launches (almost) anywhere on the globe will be detected in almost instant time. They'll cover the seas too because of submarine threats, and I seem to recall the launch energy amount for detection was very small, probably down to man-portable AD/AT systems. Now, on secound thought, IR seekers are both sensitive and likely quite abstemious on a satellite, I'm sure they are out there and recording everything. Thanks, all.
Unfortunately, the 'deciders' are seemingly set on decimating the global population, and they are working hard to provoke Russia. Would not it be just to put the Russian weaponry's bullseye on the "deciding" gangsters infesting financial and corporate centers...
Putin has vowed to bring down the system causing the oppression, and that's what we see happening outside of the direct conflict with NATO and what's happening in West Asia. As Putin's noted, The West has caused much of the damage to itself. What's different now than at any other previous time is the solidarity exhibited by the Global Majority and related pressure applied to compradors.
Exactly. I've maintained the west is now all stick no carrot. The weapons cupboard is denuded, and the soft power is now in tatters, so all that's left is threatening language. The fence sitters can see who has the capacity to generate real wealth; it's not about principles or necessarily love for their people but being in a position to profit.
Every time Starmer speaks before camera he has a startled Harry Potter look as he unconvincingly stumbles through his chicanery. I guess he's worked out that his job is to overturn the tables for a bankrupt Britain. Now the ICC have issued arrest warrants for Nettanyahoo and Gallant; the prosecutor in question speaking out about western pressure and outright threats. Will they listen to Putin? Of course not.
The court case against Netanyahu within Occupied Palestine resumes at the beginning of December, and he's being called to testify against himself, which is legal in the Zionist system. So, he has much more to fear at home than from the ICC. I still think splashing a hypersonic into the Thames next to the MI6 building would be effective.
And there is a "Hague Invasion Act" here in the US. With the amount of Zionist control/infiltration of the American and British governments, it would not be a surprise if Netanyahu was arrested and the US/UK threatened military action against the Hague to free him.
Wonderful PR isn't it? It's just confirmation that the west doesn't really have "soft" power, just violent intent to enforce its will. Let's see what the Dutch quisling decides; after the fake "pogrom" I wonder if his citizens will just sit on their hands.
Based on the show trial and outcome of the MH-17 case in the Netherlands, I think it's safe to assume that the Dutch will fold like a cheap tent as soon as they're told to do so.
i share your views and concerns and questions in the last paragraph karl.. thanks for your work.. i don't have any easy answers either... well perhaps... it seems that we need to learn the limits of our hubris in some direct fashion.. i think that might be the case here, as no amount of talk is going to work... cheers james
In a sense, there is nothing new here -- MIRV technology has been around for decades, and of course re-entering warheads are travelling at hypersonic speeds. What is interesting may be less obvious. Counting the number of strikes on videos versus the expected MIRVed warheads a missile might carry, it is possible that more than one Russian missile was fired at the target. (That would have been smart, in case one of the missiles failed in any way). However, it looks like they both got through. Now contrast that with the last two announced tests of the UK's submarine launched ballistic missiles ... both of which failed. The real message may be that the West has a monopoly on DIE.
Further, look at President Putin's promise to give advance warning to citizens in belligerent countries. Just imagine the chaos which would result in London if Russia simply announced that London was next on the list! There would not even be a need to fire the missile.
Remember we are reading a translation, so we should not be too lawyerly about prepositions and commas. Translation into English:
"Of course, if necessary and as a response, we will choose objects to be hit by such systems as the Oreshnik on the territory of Ukraine, we will offer civilians in advance, as well as ask citizens of friendly states who are there to leave dangerous zones."
What President Putin seems to be saying with the "if necessary" is that further use of this missile system will only be done in response to the West first doing something stupid. A lawyerly reading would say that Putin offered that humanitarian warning step only to fellow Slavs in the Ukraine, not to (eg) Brits in London. But time will tell what the original Russian speech meant.
I listened to the live translation of Putin's address and there's very little difference in meaning anywhere. Here's the link to the official English translation published by the Kremlin, http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/75614
Here's the key paragraph in question:
"It goes without saying that when choosing, ****if necessary and as a retaliatory measure, targets to be hit by systems such as Oreshnik on Ukrainian territory, we will in advance suggest that civilians and citizens of friendly countries residing in those areas leave danger zones.**** We will do so for humanitarian reasons, openly and publicly, without fear of counter-moves coming from the enemy, who will also be receiving this information."
My understanding of this strike was that it used MRBMs and non-explosive projectiles ("rods from god") to penetrate the deep underground or heavily shielded bunker areas of this production facility. I stopped by Moon of Alabama a minute ago and there is a lot of arguing back and forth to the point it's hard to follow the discussion.
Is my understanding correct? That would explain the lack of huge fiery explosions in the videos from last night if so.
I too questioned the lack of secondary explosions in the few videos I've seen. Did you read PavewayIV's comment? We may have a better explanation from Martyanov later today.
... for years. Russia has an overwhelming conventional escalation superiority. So, IRCM with hypersonic MIRVs. Just a demonstration.
I will repeat, again--NATO has zero capability to stop Russia's long range fires. Dnepropetrovsk learned it today the hard way. Stress here on hypersonic Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles which maneuver and are impossible to be intercepted. Albeit, I am sure that 404 will claim a number of them shot down and that will be gladly repeated by NATO's media and militaries. In reality, these are strike capabilities in their organic evolution. But by far, the most important was Vladimir Putin's statement today that now Russia will warn civilians of impending strikes and those who are not going to leave... sorry people, your own choice, this is not anymore just SMO.
On this video you can see ground penetration... on the way to Yuzhmash facilities which are underground.
Thanks for pointing me to PavewayIV's comment. Very informative as always! I think it's safe to say this was a kinetic warhead or warheads and that the message sent was "You backed out of the INF and now we have missiles that your OTH radars cannot detect, nor can your AD defend against them." Totally agree with the sentiment that this wasn't a message to Ukraine so much as it was a statement to the FUKUSNATO people, which also explains the evacuation of embassies.
Paveway stated that they won't alter the course of the war. I wonder about that. They could be used against other key facilities or troop and equipment concentrations, if necessary, it seems.
They could also be considered "government decapitation weapons" - for which Putin's warning about civilians being warned indicates a willingness to decapitate, say, Zelensky and the CIA running him.
All great questions, I'm guessing only time will tell whether or not US/UK/NATO morons have learned a lesson
"Trump caused part of the problem; will he try and amend his mistakes? Will those acting as Biden continue to poke the Bear? Do they realize Russia has a naval version of that weapon that will only take a few minutes to obliterate DC essentially before any warning can be raised? Are there a few responsible people at the top of the Oligarchy who realize their Outlaw Empire is weak, in decline, and is no match for Russia or China? And if so, are they capable of restraining the Neocons who have proven themselves deluded? And what of Trump and those he’s named? Will they gain an appreciation for the new reality and modify their policy? IMO, the world hopes that’s the case."
His NATO Ambassador pick Matthew Whitaker is deep state.
For me Trumps phrase of peace through strength doesn't instill any confidence in me and I'm guessing the american people also in doing such.
"I look forward to working closely with him as we continue to promote PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH, Freedom, and Prosperity around the World."
My Weak/Strong essay caught fire and was spread around, but did it get to the places it needed to go? What were once seen by the Outlaw US Empire as strengths are now its weaknesses or vulnerabilities. I spent five minutes trying to think of something I could call a positive USA asset, and all I came up with was our farming ability.
Our only strength is exporting inflation and being able to buy the worlds resources with paper money which had no value at all, oh wait you said positive, and farming wins it. Once upon a time we would innovate but without manufacturing that no longer applies.
But is Ind Ag as practiced in the US a positive no
Many would say this demonstates the very worst aspects of capitalism, mal treating both animals and the humans employed, as well as the environment, using degrees and varieties of chemicals and gene controls which poison both animal and human and nature
To result in food which causes disease obesity and death
And which is exported to and imposed on RoW
This is a form of imperialism which first kills the native population before killing the rest of the world
Interestingly, Russia calls it the agricultural industrial complex and is non-GMO, and well understands what the various 'cides do to Nature, which includes humans. Product quality is a criteria on several levels. Vandana Shiva wrote well about seeds and other forms of indigenous intellectual property and a host of other issues. And a new grain exchange will help greatly.
Well you could say that RF learned a great deal from the US by learning not to follow their example, that is a positive, especially the GM
The grain exchange, if it is the plan I have heard of, or understood, is one in which the Africa countries, to mention only those, will be able to participate in order to procure high level and low priced grains to import
And to provide these countries with an exchange for their own products
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH" is obligatory and nebulous. None, particularly Prez, would say PEACE VIA SURRENDER. Even saying just PEACE would have opponents labeling him a PUTIN-STOOGE.
Neocons do that sort of thing to themselves. I suspect most were abused as children, thus their behavior reveals their inner values and the danger they pose to themselves and others.
The USA used ATACM's missiles to strike in Russia, and Russia's response is beautifully calibrated.
First, it's crucial to note that it appears the ATACM's missile strike caused virtually no reported damage in Russia. It's possible that the attack was designed not to cause serious damage, so as not to provoke Russia too strongly.
With that in mind, Mr. Putin's announcement wasn't just that a tit-for-tat strike was made on Ukraine. Instead Russia revealed an entirely new weapon in its response. This missile's capabilities aren't known at present, but it seems likely that it's a medium range (as in thousands of kilometers) ballistic missile with multiple hypersonic warheads. A serious weapon in other words.
But that's not the important part. Mr. Putin's statement - in his trademark understated way - makes it clear that US military assets anywhere in the world are now legitimate targets for Russia. That means hundreds of military bases, and hundreds of critical military assets such as aircraft carriers are in the cross-hairs. (A single hypersonic missile will slice a Ford-class aircraft carrier in two.)
I doubt whether the USA will allow their weapons to make major strikes within Russia. It's likely to just be minor attacks for propaganda/morale purposes. However if Washington is stupid enough to take a further escalatory step, Russia has clearly stated what will happen next. And there's nothing the USA can do to stop it.
At New Years 2021-2, I said NATO had no weapons capable of defeating Rusia, not even its nukes. That message has yet to be proven false and IMO has been validated as true. And it's not just weapons as I noted in my recent rant. We must also understand how Putin's address will be received by Russia's friends. IMO, the entire event was brilliant as it answered several questions I had about Russia's missile systems, none of which are good for potential opponents.
I'm inclined to agree with you Karl, with the caveat that the USA could have some unknown weapon that could defeat Russia without an all-out nuclear war, as unlikely as that is.
The important point is that we no longer have to guess at Russia's offensive capabilities. The SMO has previously revealed very capable Russian weapons that can be used in a nearby theatre. Some of those weapons have no match in the US/NATO arsenal. Now Russia has revealed an entirely new weapon, and it is even more formidable than what we've seen so far. It doesn't just threaten Ukraine, but the entire European, North African and West Asia regions, and any American asset in those regions. And it does so without having to resort to a nuclear strike with an ICBM.
At the military level it's a strategic checkmate against Washington, although they won't acknowledge it of course. But in every capital around the world, the meaning will be clear. The USA is now a paper tiger vis-a-vis its peer adversaries. It's ability to project force around the world with impunity is now neutralized.
Russia has yet to reveal its laser and other weapons using new physical properties, both of which Putin's announced. Did you read PavewayIV's comment at MoA? Here's what I consider the most important part:
"Open question is whether US/NATO even detected the Oreshnik launch - which they *can* do for ICBMs and is critical to subsequent mid-course detection and to attempt a defense. Oreshnik is hypersonic mid-course does not leave the atmosphere like an ICBM. It may have been impossible to see or track by ground radar even if you detected the launch. Mach 10 terminal warhead speed makes it impossible for current AD systems to target or destroy in terminal phase. I know "Russian ICBM" sounds scary, but "Undetectable Russian IRBM with multiple hypersonic warheads" is much more likely to be what the Pentagon and NATO are obsessing about right now. "Put down the Xanax, General... that's not helping!""
I get it that the author is speaking tongue in cheek, but I believe it's probably a bit early to say much about the missile beyond the broad outline Putin gave. However with a little thought it's easy to see that nothing about the missile should be beyond Russia's well-known and fully demonstrated capabilities. We know that Russia has hypersonic weapons and that those missiles can manoeuvre in the terminal phase with pin-point accuracy. We also know that for decades Russia has had the capability to launch long-range missiles with multiple warheads. So the Oreshnik is just a modest evolutionary step really, and one that Russia is no doubt capable of.
I don't know if the launch of an Oreshnik would be detectable by America's surveillance, but I suggest it probably is. However even if it's detected that doesn't help Russia's adversaries. The targets that the Oreshnik's missiles would be used against are slow-moving or stationary. They can't hide, get out of the way, or prevent the strike. In the best case they might get 10-15 minutes to call their loved ones and say goodbye, but it won't change the outcome. Moreover, with multiple, independent and manoeuvrable hypersonic warheads, they could appear to be going to strike one target, and then veer off to strike another. So detecting Oreshnik's launch might buy you a few minutes but the consequences will not be prevented. As I said, even in the broad outline we know so far, it's a serious weapon.
@Karl Sanchez
Running a large rocket at hypersonic speeds in atmosphere the whole way at the claimed longer range while neither melting the airframe nor being noticed as a ginormous thermal track easily visible from orbit? While ALSO not being detectable by RADAR? To me implies a plasma skin anti friction envelope/guidance effect technology is being used.
An aeronautical analogue/equivalent of the Shkval torpedo's supercavitating bubble skin effect, an idea we've thought about but never worked out the use of in a practical weapon system, much less deployed AFAIK.
If the bugger is also plasma effect PROPELLED, we have just entered Star Wars territory.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://torroja.dmt.upm.es/congresos/AFMC_Melb2014/Final%2520Papers/340.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjJyqP9ge-JAxULhYkEHVhmGucQFnoECDkQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw3j9xLXXVeWevpWgDgZcM-a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval
May I use this opportunity to ask the several present expert gentlemen a question I've wondering about for some time now? About two decades ago, there was substantial news reporting in German MSM that the USofA was about to lift a satellite constellation into position equipped with sensitive IR detectors; it was said to be capable of detecting any sizable missile launch around the globe almost in real time. How is did that project turn out? Any info on this?
I'm definitely not an expert, just an interested observer. My understanding is that there are several ways that launches of ballistic missiles can be detected. The first is with medium-range radar systems. In the present case they would be located in Europe at NATO installations. The second is very long-range radar systems that can detect launches over the horizon. These are located in Alaska, Canada and Greenland. The third is specialized reconnaissance aircraft using onboard radar, but these must be airborne at the time of the launch to detect anything. Finally there is satellite imaging, which (AFAIK) is based on infrared detection of the missile's heat signature at launch. The latter method would be the most advantageous as it detects the missile the moment it leaves the launch pad. The USA's satellite detection constellation is in the midst of being deployed, according to the internet.
With all the different ways there are to detect a ballistic missile launch I think it's likely that at least the launch itself was detected and the missile tracked for some time. But once the warheads - which are relatively small, manoeuvrable and very high speed - were released from the missile, it's quite possible that the US no longer had the ability to track them.
Yes, basically. If the project that was said to be about to be implemented has been made work as planned and is still up, then we can safely assume that all missile launches (almost) anywhere on the globe will be detected in almost instant time. They'll cover the seas too because of submarine threats, and I seem to recall the launch energy amount for detection was very small, probably down to man-portable AD/AT systems. Now, on secound thought, IR seekers are both sensitive and likely quite abstemious on a satellite, I'm sure they are out there and recording everything. Thanks, all.
Unfortunately, the 'deciders' are seemingly set on decimating the global population, and they are working hard to provoke Russia. Would not it be just to put the Russian weaponry's bullseye on the "deciding" gangsters infesting financial and corporate centers...
Putin has vowed to bring down the system causing the oppression, and that's what we see happening outside of the direct conflict with NATO and what's happening in West Asia. As Putin's noted, The West has caused much of the damage to itself. What's different now than at any other previous time is the solidarity exhibited by the Global Majority and related pressure applied to compradors.
Exactly. I've maintained the west is now all stick no carrot. The weapons cupboard is denuded, and the soft power is now in tatters, so all that's left is threatening language. The fence sitters can see who has the capacity to generate real wealth; it's not about principles or necessarily love for their people but being in a position to profit.
But the North Koreans! /sarc
Those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad. - Tacitus
Well I am very proud, normal, but I am also proud that you have broken this news story in its entirety before anyone else.
Eternal respect :)
Every time Starmer speaks before camera he has a startled Harry Potter look as he unconvincingly stumbles through his chicanery. I guess he's worked out that his job is to overturn the tables for a bankrupt Britain. Now the ICC have issued arrest warrants for Nettanyahoo and Gallant; the prosecutor in question speaking out about western pressure and outright threats. Will they listen to Putin? Of course not.
The court case against Netanyahu within Occupied Palestine resumes at the beginning of December, and he's being called to testify against himself, which is legal in the Zionist system. So, he has much more to fear at home than from the ICC. I still think splashing a hypersonic into the Thames next to the MI6 building would be effective.
l think splashing a hypersonic into the M16 building would be more effective
It's an architectural monstrosity, so that would be a favour.
And there is a "Hague Invasion Act" here in the US. With the amount of Zionist control/infiltration of the American and British governments, it would not be a surprise if Netanyahu was arrested and the US/UK threatened military action against the Hague to free him.
Wonderful PR isn't it? It's just confirmation that the west doesn't really have "soft" power, just violent intent to enforce its will. Let's see what the Dutch quisling decides; after the fake "pogrom" I wonder if his citizens will just sit on their hands.
Based on the show trial and outcome of the MH-17 case in the Netherlands, I think it's safe to assume that the Dutch will fold like a cheap tent as soon as they're told to do so.
i share your views and concerns and questions in the last paragraph karl.. thanks for your work.. i don't have any easy answers either... well perhaps... it seems that we need to learn the limits of our hubris in some direct fashion.. i think that might be the case here, as no amount of talk is going to work... cheers james
In a sense, there is nothing new here -- MIRV technology has been around for decades, and of course re-entering warheads are travelling at hypersonic speeds. What is interesting may be less obvious. Counting the number of strikes on videos versus the expected MIRVed warheads a missile might carry, it is possible that more than one Russian missile was fired at the target. (That would have been smart, in case one of the missiles failed in any way). However, it looks like they both got through. Now contrast that with the last two announced tests of the UK's submarine launched ballistic missiles ... both of which failed. The real message may be that the West has a monopoly on DIE.
Further, look at President Putin's promise to give advance warning to citizens in belligerent countries. Just imagine the chaos which would result in London if Russia simply announced that London was next on the list! There would not even be a need to fire the missile.
The missile has six MIRVs each with six sub-munitions for 36 hits.
'....look at President Putin's promise to give advance warning to citizens in belligerent countries'
I wouldn't say it was a promise, he said "Of course, if necessary ..."
If.
Remember we are reading a translation, so we should not be too lawyerly about prepositions and commas. Translation into English:
"Of course, if necessary and as a response, we will choose objects to be hit by such systems as the Oreshnik on the territory of Ukraine, we will offer civilians in advance, as well as ask citizens of friendly states who are there to leave dangerous zones."
What President Putin seems to be saying with the "if necessary" is that further use of this missile system will only be done in response to the West first doing something stupid. A lawyerly reading would say that Putin offered that humanitarian warning step only to fellow Slavs in the Ukraine, not to (eg) Brits in London. But time will tell what the original Russian speech meant.
Good point re translation.
I listened to the live translation of Putin's address and there's very little difference in meaning anywhere. Here's the link to the official English translation published by the Kremlin, http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/75614
Here's the key paragraph in question:
"It goes without saying that when choosing, ****if necessary and as a retaliatory measure, targets to be hit by systems such as Oreshnik on Ukrainian territory, we will in advance suggest that civilians and citizens of friendly countries residing in those areas leave danger zones.**** We will do so for humanitarian reasons, openly and publicly, without fear of counter-moves coming from the enemy, who will also be receiving this information."
My understanding of this strike was that it used MRBMs and non-explosive projectiles ("rods from god") to penetrate the deep underground or heavily shielded bunker areas of this production facility. I stopped by Moon of Alabama a minute ago and there is a lot of arguing back and forth to the point it's hard to follow the discussion.
Is my understanding correct? That would explain the lack of huge fiery explosions in the videos from last night if so.
I too questioned the lack of secondary explosions in the few videos I've seen. Did you read PavewayIV's comment? We may have a better explanation from Martyanov later today.
Martyanov on this:
What I Am Talking About...
... for years. Russia has an overwhelming conventional escalation superiority. So, IRCM with hypersonic MIRVs. Just a demonstration.
I will repeat, again--NATO has zero capability to stop Russia's long range fires. Dnepropetrovsk learned it today the hard way. Stress here on hypersonic Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles which maneuver and are impossible to be intercepted. Albeit, I am sure that 404 will claim a number of them shot down and that will be gladly repeated by NATO's media and militaries. In reality, these are strike capabilities in their organic evolution. But by far, the most important was Vladimir Putin's statement today that now Russia will warn civilians of impending strikes and those who are not going to leave... sorry people, your own choice, this is not anymore just SMO.
On this video you can see ground penetration... on the way to Yuzhmash facilities which are underground.
I watched Andrei on Nima's show before moving on to Hudson and Wolff.
Thanks for pointing me to PavewayIV's comment. Very informative as always! I think it's safe to say this was a kinetic warhead or warheads and that the message sent was "You backed out of the INF and now we have missiles that your OTH radars cannot detect, nor can your AD defend against them." Totally agree with the sentiment that this wasn't a message to Ukraine so much as it was a statement to the FUKUSNATO people, which also explains the evacuation of embassies.
Paveway stated that they won't alter the course of the war. I wonder about that. They could be used against other key facilities or troop and equipment concentrations, if necessary, it seems.
There're likely some similar targets remaining within Ukraine. There's the message to Trump that was also provided.
They could also be considered "government decapitation weapons" - for which Putin's warning about civilians being warned indicates a willingness to decapitate, say, Zelensky and the CIA running him.
Yeah... hardened and underground targets aren't safe.... if nuclear armed.... you can't get deep enough.
Thank you.
The idiots in charge of US foreign policy know they have nothing to stop this weapon. They also know they are defeated in "ukraine". It's a good day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXna1a-806Q
Once again, Putin is the only adult in the room/world.
Thank You! "Will those acting as Biden continue to poke the Bear?" - not just a good question, but a good line.
I am visualizing Dr. Jill clenching and thrusting ol' Joe's finger into the butt of a grizzly.
All great questions, I'm guessing only time will tell whether or not US/UK/NATO morons have learned a lesson
"Trump caused part of the problem; will he try and amend his mistakes? Will those acting as Biden continue to poke the Bear? Do they realize Russia has a naval version of that weapon that will only take a few minutes to obliterate DC essentially before any warning can be raised? Are there a few responsible people at the top of the Oligarchy who realize their Outlaw Empire is weak, in decline, and is no match for Russia or China? And if so, are they capable of restraining the Neocons who have proven themselves deluded? And what of Trump and those he’s named? Will they gain an appreciation for the new reality and modify their policy? IMO, the world hopes that’s the case."
His NATO Ambassador pick Matthew Whitaker is deep state.
For me Trumps phrase of peace through strength doesn't instill any confidence in me and I'm guessing the american people also in doing such.
"I look forward to working closely with him as we continue to promote PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH, Freedom, and Prosperity around the World."
My Weak/Strong essay caught fire and was spread around, but did it get to the places it needed to go? What were once seen by the Outlaw US Empire as strengths are now its weaknesses or vulnerabilities. I spent five minutes trying to think of something I could call a positive USA asset, and all I came up with was our farming ability.
Ranching, farming, and entertainment (if it's not politically directed)
also oil and gas and fishing
Our only strength is exporting inflation and being able to buy the worlds resources with paper money which had no value at all, oh wait you said positive, and farming wins it. Once upon a time we would innovate but without manufacturing that no longer applies.
Chris Hedges mentions it more than once
http://i.imgur.com/q7wR6Ka.jpg
Until that peaceful revolution(NSA peaceful) occurs we're in deep doo doo. Those that lead amerikkka are so deep in DaNile, can they go any deeper
Farming is generally considered a positive
But is Ind Ag as practiced in the US a positive no
Many would say this demonstates the very worst aspects of capitalism, mal treating both animals and the humans employed, as well as the environment, using degrees and varieties of chemicals and gene controls which poison both animal and human and nature
To result in food which causes disease obesity and death
And which is exported to and imposed on RoW
This is a form of imperialism which first kills the native population before killing the rest of the world
Interestingly, Russia calls it the agricultural industrial complex and is non-GMO, and well understands what the various 'cides do to Nature, which includes humans. Product quality is a criteria on several levels. Vandana Shiva wrote well about seeds and other forms of indigenous intellectual property and a host of other issues. And a new grain exchange will help greatly.
Well you could say that RF learned a great deal from the US by learning not to follow their example, that is a positive, especially the GM
The grain exchange, if it is the plan I have heard of, or understood, is one in which the Africa countries, to mention only those, will be able to participate in order to procure high level and low priced grains to import
And to provide these countries with an exchange for their own products
All of which is indeed the very opposite of US practice
As per the Bill Gates crowd, or the traditional Brit haciendas in East Africa
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH" is obligatory and nebulous. None, particularly Prez, would say PEACE VIA SURRENDER. Even saying just PEACE would have opponents labeling him a PUTIN-STOOGE.
I’ve used Oreshnik. It gave me hives.
Was that witch hazel?
Hazelnuts a great way to regulate blood pressure. Ask Biden
I find them somewhat bitter. Hazelnuts and the Bidens.
Roast them
Putin’s procedure ‘intimate then demonstrate then declare’ is superior to the opposite mantra ‘vaguely threaten then disappoint’.
Thanks Karl for this report
This is indeed an important upgrade by VVP, which will have severe consequences in the Ukraine
One might expect the westie MSM to react foolishly
'VVP promises demon death missile to the Houthis, to the' ....etc etc
"westie MSM" misidentifies it as an ICBM. MSM can start by correctly informing its audience of the missiles characteristics.
Thank you Karl,
I.M.O. The North Korea story has provided an excuse for the desperate neocons.
Who set it up, thickened and used this story to incite the neocons to escalation….
Neocons do that sort of thing to themselves. I suspect most were abused as children, thus their behavior reveals their inner values and the danger they pose to themselves and others.
What I see is lots of desperation from the declining Empire.