Imho it kinda does makes sense that the high caliber officials are having the initial conversation. There has been no meaningful communication between the US and Russia since Russiagate poisoned the well during the first Trump administration. There's probably a lot of catching up to do
Yes - Set the stage with an initial, general "How do U do, long time no see. We must discuss this & that". The Big-Guns meeting demonstrates "serious-intent".
So Trump is looking to woo Russia away from China. Good luck with that! And didn't Nixon try that back in 1972? The point is, that all the key issues that the US want have already been nixed by Russia, so perhaps this is just PR and grandstanding with Trump putting as much distance between his admin and Biden's.
For a very long time, US China policy’s been based on bigotry and hubris. The abject failure of the US and the West generally to understand that China developed its philosophy of governance almost 2,500 years ago after a great deal of struggle that taught the lesson of Harmony being the ultimate state-of-being, which means conflict must be avoided. And that’s why China seeks Win-Win outcomes as they promote Harmony and mitigate any reasons for conflict to arise. Compared to China and most of Asia, the West is very immature as proven by its continual centuries of conflict. Note that China hasn’t altered its goal of attaining Harmony but has tempered its expectations when it comes to dealing with the West, which is why we see it expanding its ability to defend itself.
Well, since the Brits & the Boxer Rebellion and the Opium War(s) in the 19th c., the 2 Japanese invasions in the 1930s, and the Korean War, I think China has been aware of its vulnerability but are now better prepared due to its industrial development.
US wears a parachute. Congratulations to her, and why should they not try to save the empire? And they definitely have opportunities. We do not care about European sanctions anymore, it is almost useless to discuss except, Imagine American and United airline flying through Russian airspace, Europe never will, they compete again with China who has the monopoly today. Rescues Boeing market share also.
Never underestimate the power of oligarchs, ours and yours.
I am very happy with outcome today for many reasons, for ours, for yours and very deep personal reasons.
However my opinion generally is sceptic, Europe are so convinced of our weakness and their own strength that eventually Russia and US will not be able to confirm agreements. It suits both actually although the conflict cannot stop then until Europe feels pain. My prediction for this reason is the destruction of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, they are playing a lot with Kaliningrad and this will be the response.
The MoA article today is rather curious. I only replied to one portion of it:
“Three years ago, I tried in vain to impress upon people the vast importance of the 4 February 2022 Joint Declaration made by Russia and China just prior to the start of the Beijing Olympics, so I'm pleased that its importance is finally being recognized now that it's been reinforced by two additional joint declarations and China's four Global Initiatives.
“As for the conflict between Trump and the EU, Trump seems to understand the Outlaw US Empire started a war of aggression against Russia with the 2014 Ukraine Coup and that under Nuremburg Law the Empire is guilty of all the crimes that ensued after the Coup. So, while suing for peace, Trump is also trying to focus blame on the EU even though it was told in no uncertain terms to "fuck off" as the Empire was running the show, which is a clear confession by Nuland made at the time. Prior to leaving for the negotiations, Lavrov explicitly stated:
"Everyone must be held accountable for their actions. When someone has been committing lawlessness for many years, violating their own rules of equality, fair competition, the presumption of innocence, the inviolability of property, freedom of expression and freedom of access to information, all this is trampled on without a twinge of conscience, what is "foreign" is being plundered in violation of all norms of international law, the Nazi regime is being encouraged and weapons are being pumped up in order to kill its own citizens. All this is being done in the hope that we will somehow "slip through" and "sit out" under the "nuclear umbrella." This will not happen anymore. We must be held accountable for our actions. This is already said in the Bible." [My Emphasis]
“Week in and week out, Zakharova has tirelessly stated Russia will seek prosecution of all that are involved with the war crime that began in 2014--from Maidan to the Odessa burnings, all and especially those who directed it. Thus, one purpose of the litany of propaganda that Russia was losing was to reassure the guilty that they were unlikely to meet the Nazi fate at Nuremburg they merit. Frankly, I'm somewhat perplexed that Russia's negotiating with part of the criminal element that initiated and abetted the war--Rubio and Trump. Of course, after saying from the start that Russia was open to talks to refuse now would be a very poor choice. So, how will Russia attain justice for all those killed, maimed and displaced, or will the result be similar to WW2's end when so many Nazis were able to avoid justice thanks to the West's actions--not just escaping to the Western Hemisphere but having their sentences commuted?
“Will seeing the EU/NATO dictatorship destroyed and the Empire's troops and weapons removed from Europe be enough justice since that ought to mean the end of the very long Crusade against Russia? If we get to that point, then I might have an answer.”
As for the Balts and Finns, they’ve always been rebellious when part of Russia, so why not just let them shrivel and die? The Estonians seem committed to that course of action. Of course, if you’ve been personally affected by their behavior, then I respect your POV.
I went to the moa for the purpose of reading your comment. Generally there is a negative infiltration, the same in many western comments section, so I deny most and look for yours. I agree, and there are so many points you make that in some ways appear an impossibility either practically or because the will is either not there or is deflected by another influence somewhere.
My prediction for Baltic unions and Lithuania in particular is not founded by emotion, only the general nature of access to Kaliningrad, and the scenario is only possible because of access denial via legally recognized land transport corridor. Could this happen? Yes. So for the purpose of pain to Europe this option is available. How can they ever calm down?
It is a begining, nothing is decided and maybe it will not go further. Anyway a negotiation process will take a long time, this is clear, and we are winning, but I want to hug mine again. Every morning there is the possibility I will not.
Thanks for your reply. I understand what you’re saying at the end. I want that for you too!—For you both!!!!
As for the Balts and Europe generally, Biden killed their economies with the help of Poland and Germany, and now Ukraine too. With luck, the 23rd will be an eruption in Germany and wholesale replacement of politicians. If not, then Germany and all those that were dependent on its economy will continue their downward spiral.
«... the American side “now has a clearer understanding of Russia’s position”...»
Of course they do. They only have to look at the battlefield and at Russia's capabilities. They are gangsters, but they are not stupid. In any case, they should not be trusted, the Minsk agreements will forever be associated with the most petty betrayal.
"they [the thoroughly zionized US] should not be trusted"
Agree.
The US has been under the aipac/mossad/banking cabal boot for quite a time. The effect of this occupation is apparent in the cowardice and impotence of American citizenry and in the brazen pro-israel cockiness of the aipac-owned US congress. Schiff, Schumer, Pelosi, Cardin, Waters, Klobuchar, Wasserman-Scultz, Blinken, Nuland-Kagan, Sullivan ... they are true compradors, the shameless traitors to the interests of the American citizenry.
You are absolutely right. The Zionists know very well how to weaken the strong with a thousand tricks and lies. Beneath Blinken's polite manners and hypocritical "good face" lies a very poisonous snake, something that is usually very common in that sect of ruthless vampires. The United States is eaten away by that voracious termite called AIPAC. The Zionists control the narcotic mirages (Hollywood, mainstream media, entertainment, etc.) that cleverly hide the disease and the parasite that causes it for their own and exclusive benefit (let us not forget that these are "God's chosen ones"). Their diabolical power is such that they can perpetrate genocide and be repeatedly and fervently applauded in Congress itself. The Americans should not look for enemies outside, they have them within.
According to RT: "Lavrov led the Russian delegation, which also included Yury Ushakov, Putin’s top foreign policy aide. Kirill Dmitriev, the CEO of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), also took part in the negotiation process."
But Dmitriev is not shown in the photo or mentioned in the readout. One wonders why?
RT’s report mentions him as part of Russia’s team. It’s quite possible he’s there to conduct business with the Saudis, which is why I thought he was named.
Thanks for these readouts, Karl. Not to criticize, but one other statement that deserves a highlight is this: "The two leaders [Lavrov and MbS] discussed the implementation of the agreements between President of Russia Vladimir Putin and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on the comprehensive development of bilateral relations."
Russia and Saudi Arabia, the two most important members of OPEC+, appear to be able to work together for the benefit of both. That is a powerful alliance. That the talks were held in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is also notable in itself. Switzerland has lost its status, or more accurately squandered its status, as a neutral nation. Whereas before it was a small country with considerable influence in the world, it is now just a small country with little geopolitical relevance.
All these changes taking place appear to be nothing less than a global geopolitical realignment. Such things don't come along every day. More like once a century and it's usually accompanied by a massive war. I have a lot of trepidation for the future, not the least for the safety of those who are leading this change. Powerful forces will oppose them. That said, it's sure an interesting time to be alive.
when hostility has been the norm, at least from the neocon US side for 30+ years high level personnel are needed to make the point of course reversal or correction.
The US is directly responsible for the sufferings and deaths of tens of thousands of Russian citizens. This fact must be reminded the US representatives constantly.
There are should be appropriate reparations from the US to the victims of the 2014 regime change (accomplished by US ziocon Nuand-Kagan in collaboration with the Ukrainian Nazi Party Svoboda), as well as the setting out the Nuremberg 2.0 to investigate and punish the principal warmongers at the US State Department & fascist mega-corporations/banks that own the US congress. The regime change in Kiev and Nazification of Ukraine have been the handiwork of American ziocons. Justice must be served.
I mentioned on another thread that Trump the businessman would never have sanctioned the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines. Unlike the career politicians who've never built jack-shit, well except their off-shore accounts, rather, he would have said OK Private Schultz (it's Scholz Sir -don't interrupt), you're bagging a 33% discount on Russian gas, half of that will be wired to this account. But, but . . . . now get lost and send in Annie Bareback, tell her no underwear.
There is a fundamental misreading of these moves by the Trump administration. They are sometimes seen as the idiosyncratic flailing of a far-right president who is committed to putting ‘America First’ and so is unwilling to pursue expensive wars that are not in its interest. But this is a short-sighted and erroneous assessment of Trump’s phone call with Putin on Ukraine and approach to the US military. Rather than see this as an isolationist manoeuvre, it is important to understand that Trump is attempting to pursue a Reverse Kissinger Strategy, namely, to befriend Russia to isolate China.
Trump understands that Russia is not an existential threat to the United States. The US government does not fear Russian energy sales to Europe, since these primary commodity sales do not pretend to undermine the overall US control of the global economy. However, China’s rapid development of technology and science as well as of the new productive forces genuinely poses a threat to US domination of the key sectors of the global economy. It is the US perceived ‘threat’ from China that motivates Trump’s approach to alliances and enemies.
Kissinger’s strategy: Befriend China to Isolate Russia.
Yeah, as I’ve written before, competition needs to be replaced by cooperation. Many globally see that need, but few have any idea how to implement it when a significant percentage insists on it winning at the expense of everyone else.
A more detailed description of what was discussed will help in determining whether this is a real attempt at normalizing relations between the U.S. and the R.F. Removing sanctions on Russia IMO will mark how serious the effort is. The Euro elites are bent on destroying their economies and cultures but embracing a multipolar world is the only path to human flourishing. Cautiously optimistic here
“The EU has no plans to lift sanctions against Russia even if the US decides to do so, and is working on the next raft of measures, EU Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis has said.
“The bloc has proposed a 16th round of sanctions on Russia to be imposed next week for the third anniversary of the start of the Russian military operation against Ukraine on February 24.”
The EU Dictatorship demands the war against Russia continue, but it has no real means to do so.
I'm unconvinced it's a "Good Cop, Bad Cop" routine. The Euro politicos just can't politically & possibly ideologically do an immediate 180 - known as a Trampolina Baerbock 360.
Well its a start, and certainly a lot more productive than the Biden clowns being in charge in DC.
Imho it kinda does makes sense that the high caliber officials are having the initial conversation. There has been no meaningful communication between the US and Russia since Russiagate poisoned the well during the first Trump administration. There's probably a lot of catching up to do
There’s also the issue of matching rank protocol, which you see with Russia saying it will announce its next team based upon whom the US designates.
Yes - Set the stage with an initial, general "How do U do, long time no see. We must discuss this & that". The Big-Guns meeting demonstrates "serious-intent".
Everybody loves Maria Zakharova
thanks karl..
So Trump is looking to woo Russia away from China. Good luck with that! And didn't Nixon try that back in 1972? The point is, that all the key issues that the US want have already been nixed by Russia, so perhaps this is just PR and grandstanding with Trump putting as much distance between his admin and Biden's.
For a very long time, US China policy’s been based on bigotry and hubris. The abject failure of the US and the West generally to understand that China developed its philosophy of governance almost 2,500 years ago after a great deal of struggle that taught the lesson of Harmony being the ultimate state-of-being, which means conflict must be avoided. And that’s why China seeks Win-Win outcomes as they promote Harmony and mitigate any reasons for conflict to arise. Compared to China and most of Asia, the West is very immature as proven by its continual centuries of conflict. Note that China hasn’t altered its goal of attaining Harmony but has tempered its expectations when it comes to dealing with the West, which is why we see it expanding its ability to defend itself.
Well, since the Brits & the Boxer Rebellion and the Opium War(s) in the 19th c., the 2 Japanese invasions in the 1930s, and the Korean War, I think China has been aware of its vulnerability but are now better prepared due to its industrial development.
US wears a parachute. Congratulations to her, and why should they not try to save the empire? And they definitely have opportunities. We do not care about European sanctions anymore, it is almost useless to discuss except, Imagine American and United airline flying through Russian airspace, Europe never will, they compete again with China who has the monopoly today. Rescues Boeing market share also.
Never underestimate the power of oligarchs, ours and yours.
I am very happy with outcome today for many reasons, for ours, for yours and very deep personal reasons.
However my opinion generally is sceptic, Europe are so convinced of our weakness and their own strength that eventually Russia and US will not be able to confirm agreements. It suits both actually although the conflict cannot stop then until Europe feels pain. My prediction for this reason is the destruction of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, they are playing a lot with Kaliningrad and this will be the response.
The MoA article today is rather curious. I only replied to one portion of it:
“Three years ago, I tried in vain to impress upon people the vast importance of the 4 February 2022 Joint Declaration made by Russia and China just prior to the start of the Beijing Olympics, so I'm pleased that its importance is finally being recognized now that it's been reinforced by two additional joint declarations and China's four Global Initiatives.
“As for the conflict between Trump and the EU, Trump seems to understand the Outlaw US Empire started a war of aggression against Russia with the 2014 Ukraine Coup and that under Nuremburg Law the Empire is guilty of all the crimes that ensued after the Coup. So, while suing for peace, Trump is also trying to focus blame on the EU even though it was told in no uncertain terms to "fuck off" as the Empire was running the show, which is a clear confession by Nuland made at the time. Prior to leaving for the negotiations, Lavrov explicitly stated:
"Everyone must be held accountable for their actions. When someone has been committing lawlessness for many years, violating their own rules of equality, fair competition, the presumption of innocence, the inviolability of property, freedom of expression and freedom of access to information, all this is trampled on without a twinge of conscience, what is "foreign" is being plundered in violation of all norms of international law, the Nazi regime is being encouraged and weapons are being pumped up in order to kill its own citizens. All this is being done in the hope that we will somehow "slip through" and "sit out" under the "nuclear umbrella." This will not happen anymore. We must be held accountable for our actions. This is already said in the Bible." [My Emphasis]
“Week in and week out, Zakharova has tirelessly stated Russia will seek prosecution of all that are involved with the war crime that began in 2014--from Maidan to the Odessa burnings, all and especially those who directed it. Thus, one purpose of the litany of propaganda that Russia was losing was to reassure the guilty that they were unlikely to meet the Nazi fate at Nuremburg they merit. Frankly, I'm somewhat perplexed that Russia's negotiating with part of the criminal element that initiated and abetted the war--Rubio and Trump. Of course, after saying from the start that Russia was open to talks to refuse now would be a very poor choice. So, how will Russia attain justice for all those killed, maimed and displaced, or will the result be similar to WW2's end when so many Nazis were able to avoid justice thanks to the West's actions--not just escaping to the Western Hemisphere but having their sentences commuted?
“Will seeing the EU/NATO dictatorship destroyed and the Empire's troops and weapons removed from Europe be enough justice since that ought to mean the end of the very long Crusade against Russia? If we get to that point, then I might have an answer.”
As for the Balts and Finns, they’ve always been rebellious when part of Russia, so why not just let them shrivel and die? The Estonians seem committed to that course of action. Of course, if you’ve been personally affected by their behavior, then I respect your POV.
That MofA comment was worth its own article here.
I went to the moa for the purpose of reading your comment. Generally there is a negative infiltration, the same in many western comments section, so I deny most and look for yours. I agree, and there are so many points you make that in some ways appear an impossibility either practically or because the will is either not there or is deflected by another influence somewhere.
My prediction for Baltic unions and Lithuania in particular is not founded by emotion, only the general nature of access to Kaliningrad, and the scenario is only possible because of access denial via legally recognized land transport corridor. Could this happen? Yes. So for the purpose of pain to Europe this option is available. How can they ever calm down?
It is a begining, nothing is decided and maybe it will not go further. Anyway a negotiation process will take a long time, this is clear, and we are winning, but I want to hug mine again. Every morning there is the possibility I will not.
Thanks for your reply. I understand what you’re saying at the end. I want that for you too!—For you both!!!!
As for the Balts and Europe generally, Biden killed their economies with the help of Poland and Germany, and now Ukraine too. With luck, the 23rd will be an eruption in Germany and wholesale replacement of politicians. If not, then Germany and all those that were dependent on its economy will continue their downward spiral.
«... the American side “now has a clearer understanding of Russia’s position”...»
Of course they do. They only have to look at the battlefield and at Russia's capabilities. They are gangsters, but they are not stupid. In any case, they should not be trusted, the Minsk agreements will forever be associated with the most petty betrayal.
"they [the thoroughly zionized US] should not be trusted"
Agree.
The US has been under the aipac/mossad/banking cabal boot for quite a time. The effect of this occupation is apparent in the cowardice and impotence of American citizenry and in the brazen pro-israel cockiness of the aipac-owned US congress. Schiff, Schumer, Pelosi, Cardin, Waters, Klobuchar, Wasserman-Scultz, Blinken, Nuland-Kagan, Sullivan ... they are true compradors, the shameless traitors to the interests of the American citizenry.
You are absolutely right. The Zionists know very well how to weaken the strong with a thousand tricks and lies. Beneath Blinken's polite manners and hypocritical "good face" lies a very poisonous snake, something that is usually very common in that sect of ruthless vampires. The United States is eaten away by that voracious termite called AIPAC. The Zionists control the narcotic mirages (Hollywood, mainstream media, entertainment, etc.) that cleverly hide the disease and the parasite that causes it for their own and exclusive benefit (let us not forget that these are "God's chosen ones"). Their diabolical power is such that they can perpetrate genocide and be repeatedly and fervently applauded in Congress itself. The Americans should not look for enemies outside, they have them within.
According to RT: "Lavrov led the Russian delegation, which also included Yury Ushakov, Putin’s top foreign policy aide. Kirill Dmitriev, the CEO of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), also took part in the negotiation process."
But Dmitriev is not shown in the photo or mentioned in the readout. One wonders why?
RT’s report mentions him as part of Russia’s team. It’s quite possible he’s there to conduct business with the Saudis, which is why I thought he was named.
Thanks for these readouts, Karl. Not to criticize, but one other statement that deserves a highlight is this: "The two leaders [Lavrov and MbS] discussed the implementation of the agreements between President of Russia Vladimir Putin and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on the comprehensive development of bilateral relations."
Russia and Saudi Arabia, the two most important members of OPEC+, appear to be able to work together for the benefit of both. That is a powerful alliance. That the talks were held in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is also notable in itself. Switzerland has lost its status, or more accurately squandered its status, as a neutral nation. Whereas before it was a small country with considerable influence in the world, it is now just a small country with little geopolitical relevance.
All these changes taking place appear to be nothing less than a global geopolitical realignment. Such things don't come along every day. More like once a century and it's usually accompanied by a massive war. I have a lot of trepidation for the future, not the least for the safety of those who are leading this change. Powerful forces will oppose them. That said, it's sure an interesting time to be alive.
When I read the following, I am hopeful ! — “…Lavrov said […] “Not only did we listen, but we genuinely heard each other.””
when hostility has been the norm, at least from the neocon US side for 30+ years high level personnel are needed to make the point of course reversal or correction.
The US is directly responsible for the sufferings and deaths of tens of thousands of Russian citizens. This fact must be reminded the US representatives constantly.
There are should be appropriate reparations from the US to the victims of the 2014 regime change (accomplished by US ziocon Nuand-Kagan in collaboration with the Ukrainian Nazi Party Svoboda), as well as the setting out the Nuremberg 2.0 to investigate and punish the principal warmongers at the US State Department & fascist mega-corporations/banks that own the US congress. The regime change in Kiev and Nazification of Ukraine have been the handiwork of American ziocons. Justice must be served.
I mentioned on another thread that Trump the businessman would never have sanctioned the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines. Unlike the career politicians who've never built jack-shit, well except their off-shore accounts, rather, he would have said OK Private Schultz (it's Scholz Sir -don't interrupt), you're bagging a 33% discount on Russian gas, half of that will be wired to this account. But, but . . . . now get lost and send in Annie Bareback, tell her no underwear.
This from VJ Prashad:
There is a fundamental misreading of these moves by the Trump administration. They are sometimes seen as the idiosyncratic flailing of a far-right president who is committed to putting ‘America First’ and so is unwilling to pursue expensive wars that are not in its interest. But this is a short-sighted and erroneous assessment of Trump’s phone call with Putin on Ukraine and approach to the US military. Rather than see this as an isolationist manoeuvre, it is important to understand that Trump is attempting to pursue a Reverse Kissinger Strategy, namely, to befriend Russia to isolate China.
Trump understands that Russia is not an existential threat to the United States. The US government does not fear Russian energy sales to Europe, since these primary commodity sales do not pretend to undermine the overall US control of the global economy. However, China’s rapid development of technology and science as well as of the new productive forces genuinely poses a threat to US domination of the key sectors of the global economy. It is the US perceived ‘threat’ from China that motivates Trump’s approach to alliances and enemies.
Kissinger’s strategy: Befriend China to Isolate Russia.
https://nocoldwar.org/news/donald-trumps-reverse-kissinger-strategy
Trump needs to understand that China isn't an existential threat to the Outlaw US Empire. The Empire's threats--like Europe's--are all within itself.
But it is an economic competitotr, after all, we must never forget this all about markets and resources, remove both and the US has nothing.
Yeah, as I’ve written before, competition needs to be replaced by cooperation. Many globally see that need, but few have any idea how to implement it when a significant percentage insists on it winning at the expense of everyone else.
A more detailed description of what was discussed will help in determining whether this is a real attempt at normalizing relations between the U.S. and the R.F. Removing sanctions on Russia IMO will mark how serious the effort is. The Euro elites are bent on destroying their economies and cultures but embracing a multipolar world is the only path to human flourishing. Cautiously optimistic here
RT reports:
“The EU has no plans to lift sanctions against Russia even if the US decides to do so, and is working on the next raft of measures, EU Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis has said.
“The bloc has proposed a 16th round of sanctions on Russia to be imposed next week for the third anniversary of the start of the Russian military operation against Ukraine on February 24.”
The EU Dictatorship demands the war against Russia continue, but it has no real means to do so.
That's America. We work through proxies like Europe.
I'm unconvinced it's a "Good Cop, Bad Cop" routine. The Euro politicos just can't politically & possibly ideologically do an immediate 180 - known as a Trampolina Baerbock 360.
Had ScKamala Harris been elected tis unlikely anyone would have a mouth left to speak with nor eyes to see, let alone ears to hear.
Oh I'm being followed by a Moonshadow.....
That's cat Stevens
He said. And if I ever lose my eyes....
I won't have to cry no more